Putting KDE's videos to the alternative video platform PeerTube
Open, Needs TriagePublic

Description

At the moment, official KDE videos are only uploaded to youtube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF3I1gf7GcbmAb0mR6vxkZQ).

But youtube is not a satisfying platform because of this reasons:

  • youtube is unfree software
  • it spies on the users and collects a lot of data
  • it is centralized
  • there are many ads on the platform
  • it is censored
  • it is not controlled by the KDE sysadmins
  • ... (and many more you can think of)

Much better would be a parallel posting strategy like it is done with the social media posts which are posted on facebook and twitter as well as on mastodon, reddit and google plus.

The best alternative video platform to youtube is PeerTube (https://joinpeertube.org/en/).
The advantages of PeerTube are:

  • completely free software (AGPLv3)
  • does not spy on the users
  • decentralized
  • P2P
  • neither controlled nor censored by a central authority
  • many instances (https://instances.joinpeertube.org/instances)
  • little server load because of P2P
  • cannot be shut down
  • cannot be sold
  • instances can be connected together so theoretically, it would be possible to view videos from all instances at all instances
  • ... (maybe some more)

Integration of PeerTube with KDE:

  • running our own instance would be the best solution and quite easy because there's already a docker container (https://github.com/Chocobozzz/PeerTube/blob/develop/support/doc/docker.md) and there's less server load because of P2P (PeerTube is WebTorrent-based)
  • <Nightrose> Please keep in mind the additional sysadmin work and cost for something like this. (from KDE promo channel)
  • <Nightrose> We're trying to reduce the number of systems we have to maintain ourselves ;-) (from KDE promo channel)
  • out of this reasons it is really unlikely that KDE will have its own PeerTube instance in the nearer future
  • but this does not end our PeerTube journey: **there are many other great instances out there on the internet where we can put the official KDE videos to (https://instances.joinpeertube.org/instances)**
  • https://video.tedomum.net would be the instance with the most following instances provided there is no upload quota and open registration

Some of the official as well as some of the community posts on dot.kde.org and on planet.kde.org include videos (e.g.: https://dot.kde.org/2018/02/06/plasma-512-out-and-it-faster-stabler-and-has-more-features-ever https://dot.kde.org/2018/03/22/5-things-look-forward-krita-40). In the most cases, they do it by using youtube. But youtube does not comply with KDE's vision "A world in which everyone has control over their digital life and enjoys freedom and privacy." because youtube is spying on the users as well it is not free software. By embedding youtube videos in our blog posts we force the viewers to load the videos from an unfree spying platform and this practice does not comply with the KDE vision. A much better way would be to upload all videos to PeerTube and embed it using PeerTube like following:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://framatube.org/videos/embed/c193a2f6-8b24-48c3-a93e-f89bd71cad42" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Requirements for a PeerTube instance we upload our videos to:

  • open registration
  • no upload limit
  • many following instances
  • nearly 100 % uptime

Optional requirements for a PeerTube instance we upload our videos to:

  • good ping and fast connection
  • rather run by a reliable organization than by a private person
  • follows many instances
  • pronouncable domain name which can be remembered easily
  • run by an entity which shares the same values like KDE

Possible instances:

  • https://framatube.org
    • run by a great organization
    • 78 followers
    • no open registration, we would have to ask for an account
  • https://peertube.nsa.ovh
    • 55 followers
    • follows 112 instances
    • open registration
    • upload limit of 1 GB (quotation from the About site: "if you need more, contact Skid")
    • from 240p up to 1080p transcoding! (I saw no other instance doing this!) || Correction: I saw also other instances rendering to 1080p
    • quite a strange name
    • nsa.ovh is not an organization, it is hosted quite privately by four guys
    • they say nothing about their values or why they do it
  • https://video.tedomum.net/
    • open registration
    • no upload limit
    • 33 following instances
    • follows 27 instances
    • run by the TeDomum organisation
    • similar values like KDE
    • converts videos only to 360p and 720p
  • https://peertube.mastodon.host
    • open registration
    • upload quota of 20 GB (quotation from the About site: If you need more space for hosting your videos, let me know on Mastodon: https://mastodon.host/@gled)
    • same person also hosts a Mastodon and a Funkwhale instance
    • "As with Mastodon.host, if one day I am unable to continue hosting this service, it will be handed over to another admin that the community trust !"
    • 30 followers
    • follows 109 instances
    • has the newest version of PeerTube (1.0.0-beta.6)
    • seems also to render to 1080p
    • has a separate status page: https://status.remote-shell.net/
    • is financed through donations
  • https://tube.opportunis.me
    • open registration
    • upload quota of 5 GB
    • run by oppotunis.me (https://opportunis.me) (two french persons which like to play with servers) which also host other free and privacy-respecting services
  • https://tube.p2p.legal
  • https://peertube.maly.io
  • https://video.atlanti.se
cahfofpai renamed this task from Pushing KDE's videos to alternative video platforms to Putting KDE's videos to the alternative video platform PeerTube.
cahfofpai claimed this task.
paulb added a subscriber: lydia.EditedMay 18 2018, 11:44 PM

This is tricky. I agree that YouTube is terrible... as is Facebook, as is Twitter. We should support free and open alternatives. There are issues, though. As @lydia points out, hosting a video platform ourselves may be complicated. We also have to think of our current followers. If we want to reach beyond the bubble, we will have to maintain our accounts on the most popular platforms because that is where people outside the bubble congregate.

But let's explore this possibility. A half-way solution would be not to host the platform ourselves, but find an organisation that maintains the same principals as us and open and account with them, the same way we don't host our own Mastodon account, but use somebody else's instance.

There is, for example, FramaTube, which belongs to the PeerTube network and seems like a solid organisation. We would still have to post videos to YouTube, but we could use the FramaTube videos for embedding.

duffus added a subscriber: duffus.May 18 2018, 11:49 PM

Would it make sense to upload Akademy videos? I'm unsure that these are preferable to our primary source for videos being served by our files CDN?

You have a point, @duffus. Serving videos from the files site must be maintained and publicised. I am personally in favour of having ALL videos on the CDN and have that as a repository anybody can dip into or for masse downloading.

I think the main advantage of these video-hosting platforms, and what can attract viewers, is probably the social interaction features. People can comment on videos, share them with over subscribers to the service or on social media, subscribe to and get notified when there are updates to there favourite channels, etc.. All these things can be done really easily. FRAMA has also got a Diaspora* instance and, I think, a Mastodon instance (but I can't see it right now), so we may see an integration with those in the future.

This is the problem: if we open a Framatube account (and I am not against it), uploading a video to this platform is another step in the workflow. It doesn't seem too hard, but it is another account of another social media network that needs maintaining.

This is not a deal-breaker, I think, but something we have to remember: every new social media network we join creates that little bit more work.

framatube.org, the official instance of FramaSoft, has no open registration and I think I read that it is only meant for French videos about free software. Maybe they will change their mind if we would kindly ask them either they want to host KDE's videos.
@paulb Maybe you should ask them for a KDE account, because you do the whole social media thing and you have a longer and much brighter KDE history than me.

Uploading videos to PeerTube has not to be another step in the workflow. I found the very nice python script prismedia (https://git.lecygnenoir.info/LecygneNoir/prismedia/src/branch/develop) which is able to upload videos to YouTube as well as to PeerTube at the same time. Using this, you would only have to adapt the uploading step.

Furthermore, there is another nice python script called Perror (https://git.drycat.fr/rigelk/Peeror/wiki), which, in combination with flexget and youtube-dl, is able to mirror a YouTube channel to PeerTube which would be perfect to easily start our PeerTube adventure without much efforts.

The video with the most views on all PeerTube instances I was able to figure out has 60.000 clicks.

KDE's most viewn video, the release video of Plasma 5.8 LTS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgH1Clgr-uE), has more than 173.500 clicks. Maybe we can beat them all and have the most viewn video in the whole PeerTube universe (maybe this will be the release video of Plasma 5.13? :-) ), because I think a big part of KDE's clicks on YouTube comes from embedding the videos into the blog posts which will then be replaced by the embedded PeerTube videos.

paulb added a comment.May 21 2018, 9:34 AM

framatube.org, the official instance of FramaSoft, has no open registration and I think I read that it is only meant for French videos about free software. Maybe they will change their mind if we would kindly ask them either they want to host KDE's videos.

Ah, Yes! Maybe another instance then, sow e don't have to set up our own. Let's find one, one that has quite a lot of members and has stable maintenance team.

Uploading videos to PeerTube has not to be another step in the workflow. I found the very nice python script prismedia (https://git.lecygnenoir.info/LecygneNoir/prismedia/src/branch/develop) which is able to upload videos to YouTube as well as to PeerTube at the same time. Using this, you would only have to adapt the uploading step.

Interesting. That is very useful. We would just have to vay slightly our workflow, not add more steps.

Furthermore, there is another nice python script called Perror (https://git.drycat.fr/rigelk/Peeror/wiki), which, in combination with flexget and youtube-dl, is able to mirror a YouTube channel to PeerTube which would be perfect to easily start our PeerTube adventure without much efforts.

Brilliant. Let's find some good candidate instances and list them here, choose one and start working on setting up a channel.

cahfofpai updated the task description. (Show Details)May 22 2018, 7:52 PM

I would give it at least a try and ask the people from FramaSoft either they want to host our videos because FramaSoft is a great organization which shares similar values like KDE, they have one of the two PeerTube instances with the most followers (78 followers) and they are quite reliable I think, so we can be sure that this instance is still running in a few years.

cahfofpai updated the task description. (Show Details)May 22 2018, 8:33 PM
cahfofpai updated the task description. (Show Details)

A problem could be that most instances only render the videos up to 720p and I don't know when this value will be increased. I do not have a problem in watching videos in 720p, but maybe other people have.

A problem could be that most instances only render the videos up to 720p and I don't know when this value will be increased. I do not have a problem in watching videos in 720p, but maybe other people have.

I think this is a very minor problem. A high-quality 720p video is perfectly watchable.

cahfofpai updated the task description. (Show Details)May 24 2018, 11:15 AM

There's already a KDE-related video on PeerTube: https://peertube.mastodon.host/videos/watch/f9c8545b-7360-42cd-a561-3afc769ab32c (Concept X)

Seems that this was posted by the private account of Allessandro Longo: https://peertube.nsa.ovh/accounts/1292/videos

cahfofpai updated the task description. (Show Details)May 24 2018, 11:44 AM

I have gone through all instances on https://instances.joinpeertube.org/instances and listed the best suiting in the task description.

Personally, I would prefer https://peertube.mastodon.host because they seem to render to 1080p, they have a quota of 20 GB which can be increased, they have a pronouncable and rememberable domain name and the administrator of this instance (https://mastodon.host/@gled) seems to be quite reliable. Which instance would you prefer?

cahfofpai updated the task description. (Show Details)May 24 2018, 11:52 AM
cahfofpai updated the task description. (Show Details)May 24 2018, 12:26 PM

Seems that this was posted by the private account of Allessandro Longo: https://peertube.nsa.ovh/accounts/1292/videos

Yes it's by me, I love PeerTube! I hope to see PeerTube embedded videos on KDE announcements at least, I don't see any disadvantage in usability for visitors...

How do we want to proceed with this task? Have you already looked through the instances and figured out which would be the best instance for our purposes?

paulb added a comment.Jun 6 2018, 6:40 PM

How do we want to proceed with this task? Have you already looked through the instances and figured out which would be the best instance for our purposes?

I, at least, have not had time, and probably won't have time this week. Can we take this up again next week?

No problem, I also have many other things to do.

skid added a subscriber: skid.Jun 25 2018, 3:19 PM

Hi,

I'm one of the administrators of the NSA's instance.
If you want to register on our instance, we can negociate the upload limit so you have enough space for your needs :)

Our values are similar to those of KDE, we do not yet have any page that refers to it.

@skid Thanks for the offer, we will think about it!

However, how did you find out about this task?

The (only) problem I see with your instance is the domain name (https://nsa.ovh). I do not think it is a very good idea to put KDE's official channel to an instance which has the same (domain) name (nsa) as the shortcut of one of the biggest governmental spying and data collection organizations, the National Security Agency (short: NSA), because it is fundamental for KDE to respect the user's privacy and not to collect data from the users.

To support this statement I want to quote the vision of KDE:

"A world in which everyone has control over their digital life and enjoys freedom and privacy."

For the moment, I wait for @paulb 's answer, because he is (as far as I know) the main administrator and the person in power of the numerous social media presences of KDE, including YouTube, and hopefully soon PeerTube.

skid added a comment.Jun 25 2018, 5:07 PM

However, how did you find out about this task?

As an instance administrator, i'm suscribed to the peertube-admin mailing list and from there :

To conclude, note that KDE is looking for a PeerTube instance to host their videos, so if you are interested don't hesitate to contact them.

So we reached out to our favorite search engine with "KDE Peertube" as keywords and it was the first result.

The (only) problem I see with your instance is the domain name (https://nsa.ovh). [...]

It's understandable ^^'
The domain "nsa.ovh" is intentionally ironic :)

paulb added a comment.EditedJun 25 2018, 5:13 PM

@skid Thanks for the offer, we will think about it!

However, how did you find out about this task?

The (only) problem I see with your instance is the domain name (https://nsa.ovh). I do not think it is a very good idea to put KDE's official channel to an instance which has the same (domain) name (nsa) as the shortcut of one of the biggest governmental spying and data collection organizations, the National Security Agency (short: NSA), because it is fundamental for KDE to respect the user's privacy and not to collect data from the users.

To support this statement I want to quote the vision of KDE:

"A world in which everyone has control over their digital life and enjoys freedom and privacy."

For the moment, I wait for @paulb 's answer, because he is (as far as I know) the main administrator and the person in power of the numerous social media presences of KDE, including YouTube, and hopefully soon PeerTube.

Well, I am not the only one.

First of all, let me say how much we appreciate you reaching out, @skid. The domain name is definitely problematic, even though I appreciate the humour of your choice (it made me chuckle). And it seems like you have a solid and professional set up, which makes it a double pity. I would definitely recommend nsa.ovh for personal use.

It is true that you can host your videos on one instance of PeerTube and then share the links from another. This even works for linking to the channel itself -- marvels of a federated network. However it does seem a bit convoluted to me.

By the way, I have been using PeerTube quite a lot, and the more I use it, the more I like it. It is pretty incredible.

Hey all, you've probably seen it, but just in case someone missed it - Framasoft/Peertube did an AMA a couple of days ago:

https://old.reddit.com/r/freesoftware/comments/8vt9tq/ama_with_framasoft_and_peertube_send_your/

Maybe there's something interesting or useful to us in that thread, so you might wanna take a look :)

This task is a bit stuck in the pipeline. I think we can generally all agree that it'd be a good idea to host our videos on a public Peertube instance, as Peertube better reflects our values and priorities. Now, https://nsa.ovh has recently encountered a total data loss according to their Twitter account, so I don't think they'll be a viable option in the near future. Currently https://peertube.mastodon.host sounds like the best option to me (high data cap that we can surely ask to be upgraded if needed, 1080p video and the admin(s) seems to have quite a lot of experience). A good start would be if we could upload the Akademy videos there, as they are mainly thought for a specific audience and not for the general public to randomly stumble into. When will the videos be ready & who manages them?

paulb added a comment.EditedSep 4 2018, 9:23 PM

https://peertube.mastodon.host sounds like the best option to me (high data cap that we can surely ask to be upgraded if needed, 1080p video and the admin(s) seems to have quite a lot of experience).

I've been trying their service for some months now. Admittedly, I have very few videos, but I haven't noticed any outages or had any problems. So +1 from me.

duffus added a comment.Sep 5 2018, 6:29 AM

A good start would be if we could upload the Akademy videos there, as they are mainly thought for a specific audience and not for the general public to randomly stumble into. When will the videos be ready & who manages them?

The Akademy videos are managed by the Akademy Team. They have required audio post processing which is why they aren't available yet. This should be done in the next couple of weeks. The canonical locations for Akademy Videos is https://files.kde.org/akademy/ where you can find the previous years videos as well.

I think uploading them to peertube sounds like a good idea. How would the Akademy Team do this when they are ready? I assume having them already there for the announcement would be good.

paulb added a comment.Sep 5 2018, 6:44 AM

The Akademy team would not do the uploading, since managing social media accounts and their contents are Promo's responsibility.

michaeltunnell added a comment.EditedSep 5 2018, 5:07 PM

I think uploading them to peertube sounds like a good idea. How would the Akademy Team do this when they are ready? I assume having them already there for the announcement would be good.

You have to find an instance of PeerTube to share content. The biggest benefit and biggest problem with peertube is the decentralized nature of it. In this case, there is an option for KDE. Linux Rocks Online provides a peertube instance at peertube.linuxrocks.online

paulb added a comment.Sep 5 2018, 5:41 PM

I think uploading them to peertube sounds like a good idea. How would the Akademy Team do this when they are ready? I assume having them already there for the announcement would be good.

You have to find an instance of PeerTube to share content. The biggest benefit and biggest problem with peertube is the decentralized nature of it. In this case, there is an option for KDE. Linux Rocks Online provides a peertube instance at peertube.linuxrocks.online

Yes, or as @xyquadrat suggests, https://peertube.mastodon.host/, which also seems very reliable.

paulb added a comment.EditedSep 7 2018, 7:05 AM

Just in case it is not clear why this is desirable, I think there is a point to be made by supporting free social media platforms, albeit it is not a terribly practical one.

By opening accounts with the likes of Mastodon, PeerTube and Diaspora we are supporting en endorsing free, ethical projects.

We are also trying to lure users away from those terribly unethical other platforms, the same way we want to lure desktop users away from Windows and macOS which dominate 98% of the desktop space.

It is good for the privacy of our users (one of our core principles), as we are allowing those that are reluctant to be tracked and infected with persistent cookies to still follow what we do.

I usually stop after three reasons, but here's a bonus: Not to appear too cynical, but it is a savvy PR move.

I will admit this is not super-urgent though, so, if anyone wants to take on the responsibility of setting things up, get the channel started by stocking it with videos and then has no problem with handing the credentials over to whoever become the new people-with-access-to-social-media-to-be, then they should do it.

They should also take into account the comment above so that, when we do have time to get on this topic, we have a tool that avoids making the process of uploading videos more cumbersome than it already is.

The brand-new KDE PeerTube channel is live with it's first video, the release video of Plasma 5.13: https://peertube.mastodon.host/accounts/kde/videos https://peertube.mastodon.host/videos/watch/ae6d09f3-72ac-4afe-83fb-dbd8952587eb . I will upload the other videos during the next time.

In T8747#159363, @paulb wrote:

Just in case it is not clear why this is desirable, I think there is a point to be made by supporting free social media platforms, albeit it is not a terribly practical one.

By opening accounts with the likes of Mastodon, PeerTube and Diaspora we are supporting en endorsing free, ethical projects.

We are also trying to lure users away from those terribly unethical other platforms, the same way we want to lure desktop users away from Windows and macOS which dominate 98% of the desktop space.

It is good for the privacy of our users (one of our core principles), as we are allowing those that are reluctant to be tracked and infected with persistent cookies to still follow what we do.

I usually stop after three reasons, but here's a bonus: Not to appear to cynical, but it is a savvy PR move.

I will admit this is not super-urgent though, so, if anyone wants to take on the responsibility of setting things up, get the channel started by stocking it with videos and then has no problem with handing the credentials over to whoever become the new people-with-access-to-social-media-to-be, then they should do it.

They should also take into account the comment above so that, when we do have time to get on this topic, we have a tool that avoids making the process of uploading videos more cumbersome than it already is.

@paulb Thanks for defending our plans and efforts!

The brand-new KDE PeerTube channel is live with it's first video, the release video of Plasma 5.13: https://peertube.mastodon.host/accounts/kde/videos https://peertube.mastodon.host/videos/watch/ae6d09f3-72ac-4afe-83fb-dbd8952587eb . I will upload the other videos during the next time.

Awesome! Great job @cahfofpai, and thank you for taking the lead on this task.