Consolidate Adoption of Plasma in Schleswig-Holstein
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Description

Goal

Make sure that KDE's software gets adopted massively by the state of Schleswig-Holstein. Use this adoption as a proof of concept for future migrations in the public sector.

Context

The state of Schleswig-Holstein in Northern Germany is migrating to FLOSS in a big way. They are migrating 30,000 machines, between servers, workstations, and laptops totally or partially (i.e. migrating some apps, like from MS Office to LibreOffice) to OSS.

We see this an opportunity to get a large-ish public administration to adopt KDE software.

What we have done so far

We sent an email to the IT department and received an invitation for a call with the project leaders. We met the leaders over video-conference on 13/2/25. @joseph's notes summarise what we talked about below.

Meeting 2025-02-13 15h-16h

Introductions

On behalf of Schleswig-Holstein

  • Nici Beckendorf (StK) - works with Nils, strategic communication, development of OS Office program, networking with other communities
  • Dirk Bornhoeft - Head of Central IT management, infrastructure and technology for comprehensive collaboration
  • Sven Thomsen (SH) - Dept for Central IT solutions, digitizations of the federal state (18 people), open innovation, open to EU IT community, collaborative development
  • Felix Gebauer - in Dirk's team as project lead for NextCloud and XWiki (?), program lead to develop digital sovreign workplace
  • Nils Trates-Wrobel - developed the OS strategy, also interested in digital sustainability

On behalf of KDE

  • Paul Brown - promotion and communication
  • David Redondo - Plasma developer
  • Joseph De Veaugh-Geiss - KDE Eco
Topics
End Users
  • 30k workstations
  • Sven: focused on data center scale applications, data base systems, in last 4-5 years desktop solutions; replacing software like M Exchange with Open Exchange, NextCloud, currently using Windows OS, OpenSUSE Tumbleweek with KDE Plasma 5, Plasma 6 migration in coming weeks, trying to make experience similar to Windows, local feel with standardized wall papers, corporate identity, 50 pilot users with officially supported desktop, if there is a problem call Data Port to get support, some closed-source apps which need Electron shell, currently stepping up role out first for technical people but also integration tests for Microsoft-based applications
  • Currently in the process of using KDE native apps for enterprise usage
  • Not commited to openSUSE for now, will have a call later
  • Police stations in SH are already managed by their team, use DE for Fachapplikationen 'Task Applications' (e.g., Artus for stolen bicycles)
Note taking devices and software
  • Paul: Requested a list of criteria for using FOSS software, conditions that need to be met, e.g., accessibility. There is no list as yet, and nothing tested regarding accessibility, BUT things will happen over the next couple of years and accessibility will be a big issue.
  • They are interested in better support for touch-based interfaces, using handwriting for taking notes and further processing, as the courts are interested in retiring paper and are now using tablets and stylus
  • Paul: Is everyone issued the same HW? How many devices? Can we get information about that HW? A: Thousands of devices. Contact Sven for info. Note-taking and digitization of the notes. Stylus-driven actions. Q (David): Are these just PDFs? A (Sven): No, just note-taking on e-paper. (OneNote application, need a migration path to a simple markdown-based systems, they need solutions)
    1. Plasma-Mobile
  • They are interested in a highly-secure, basic, mobile device solution. No need for a full-fledged compatibility with Android or iOS,a s those are prone to external attacks from adversaries.
  • Not urgent, not on the agenda for this year
  • Do not require the usual functionality of other smartphone OSes
  • Simplicity is a plus
Not Migrated
  • We asked for a list of services and products they have not migrated away from.
  • OneNote
  • They are interested in web-based applications, but are open to scenarios which may need desktop-integration
Collaboration
  • They agree to development / upstream changes
  • Open communication channels
Green IT
  • Mostly Nils spoke, also Nici
  • Sustainability (Development) Goals?
  • They are interested in Okular and BE, most users are using this
  • They are interested energy consumption tools for end users, like a widget to show energy consumption
  • Upcycling: unfortunately they are already in the process of replacing laptops for Windows 11. They will donate the obsoleted HW to schools and non-profits.
  • We asked of we could be part of the process and help upcycling those devices and promoting
  • Digital society, enabling digital migration to Linux, possibility for sponsorship
  • Very interested in KDE Eco
Press Work
  • They are planning a press release in a few weeks. They will forward us dates, proposals and materials for joint press releases
  • No talk about concrete Linux distributions yet, but they want the desktops to be Plasma
  • C,t will be doing an article on the official start of the Linux-based desktop. They will advise us when that comes out
  • They are open to doing a presentation/keynote for Akademy

TODO

  • Get make and model of note-taking devices used in courts
    • Pass info on to "We care about your Input" goal champions (@jpetso )
  • Look for (preferably KDE) drop in for OneNote
  • Get Plasma Mobile development team on board to create simplified, locked down, stable version for a specific hardware platform (check with @EspiDev )
  • Find out how we can work with Dataport, they're IT support company,
    • Try and get them to install a Plasma-based OS on the machines to be recycled
  • Check what they need from Kontact/KMail
    • Check with GnuPG what kind of advantages we can offer over, say, Thunderbird
  • ...

(to be continued)

Resources

paulb created this task.Feb 13 2025, 6:47 PM
paulb added a comment.Feb 13 2025, 8:01 PM

regarding the OneNote alternative, MarkNote exists. If you configure it to save notes to a synced Nextcloud directory on your disk, you have cloud synchronization of sorts.

paulb updated the task description. (Show Details)Feb 14 2025, 10:20 AM
paulb added subscribers: jpetso, EspiDev.
frdbr added a subscriber: frdbr.EditedFeb 15 2025, 1:16 PM

regarding the OneNote alternative, MarkNote exists. If you configure it to save notes to a synced Nextcloud directory on your disk, you have cloud synchronization of sorts.

We also have KleverNotes which has a drawing feature that maybe could be adapted to add some handwriting options. If none of our apps work then we could consider to use Xournal++ and port it to qt?

frdbr added a comment.Feb 15 2025, 5:12 PM

From what I understood from @jpetso we are covered on the input side of things. What we need is for an app to implement an OCR feature like Tesseract OCR (or any other).

Adding @vkrause , @redstrate, and @justinzobel to see if they can advise us on how we can get MarkNote up to the requirements

OK first up I want to say this is amazing!

I got really excited by this! I know I was tagged for MarkNote specifically but I would also like to be involved in work like this where possible! Large scale deployments of any FOSS and working with stakeholders to accelerate and promote the deployment of KDE on this scale.

Let's really flesh out what they need, can they get us in contact with some of their employees to see their current workflow so we can document it if they haven't already and we can work towards tailoring solutions to their needs and adapting existing KDE tools for waht they require.

I haven't been involved with MarkNote a lot lately but I will jump back in to see what the current state is. Let's find out how they use OneNote, e.g. workflow and features they need in it so we can look into what would be required to use MarkNote for that.

I want to promote KDE Linux here, I know it isn't ready for large scale deployment by a long shot but it can be a goal to work towards by both sides! It is already really great and with a bit more work (which I happen to know it will be getting in the near future) it could be an amazing corporate distro.

paulb added a comment.EditedFeb 16 2025, 9:03 AM

OK first up I want to say this is amazing!

I got really excited by this! I know I was tagged for MarkNote specifically but I would also like to be involved in work like this where possible! Large scale deployments of any FOSS and working with stakeholders to accelerate and promote the deployment of KDE on this scale.

Hah hah! I'm glad you like it and find it exciting. We do too.

I would advise discretion, though. We would like that KDE be the provider of solutions in everything we can. We want it to be a clear win for our community, a success story we can tout to encourage more of the same. However, there are several departments where, if other projects, free or proprietary, get wind of them, they will want in too, and we may risk losing out. So, although this is not quite secret at all, we may want to avoid being too public about the details of stuff we are working on.

Let's really flesh out what they need, can they get us in contact with some of their employees to see their current workflow so we can document it if they haven't already and we can work towards tailoring solutions to their needs and adapting existing KDE tools for waht they require.

Yes, we are in touch with all the people from different departments from S-H. Ask concrete stuff and we will find the best person you can talk to.

I haven't been involved with MarkNote a lot lately but I will jump back in to see what the current state is. Let's find out how they use OneNote, e.g. workflow and features they need in it so we can look into what would be required to use MarkNote for that.

Yes, I sent them an email on Friday after our meeting to that effect. As soon as we have a response we'll share it here. That said, there are already some features that can be worked on, like handwriting recognition , this bug, better integration with NextCloud—they are big on using NC and web services, etc.

I want to promote KDE Linux here,

You are right. This would be good. The easiest way in would for in those machines they are recycling. Such a pity we are too late for the Windows 11 upgrade.

I know it isn't ready for large scale deployment by a long shot but it can be a goal to work towards by both sides! It is already really great and with a bit more work (which I happen to know it will be getting in the near future) it could be an amazing corporate distro.

Perfect. They have not decided on a distro yet. This fact could work for us.

paulb updated the task description. (Show Details)Feb 16 2025, 9:08 AM
paulb added a comment.EditedFeb 16 2025, 12:05 PM

Off the top of my head, features that would make MarkNotes/KleverNotes a killer note-taking app:

  • Support for handwriting and OCR
  • Drag and drop of all kinds of files, but especially common image formats and PDFs. Maybe also common office documents (ODT, ODS, dox, xlsx)
  • Integration with NextCloud + autoupdate, i.e., when someone changes a shared note, it should be updated in the desktop and web client (yes, I am aware the latter doesn't exist... yet).
paulb updated the task description. (Show Details)Feb 18 2025, 11:27 AM

Found an article (https://www.aukfood.fr/automatiser-le-deploiement-et-la-configuration-de-kde-avec-ansible/) that may be interesting on how to masse deploy KDE stuff using Ansible. Adding it to the task description.

OFf the top of my head, features that would make MarkNotes/KleverNotes a killer note-taking app:

I'll add that to my todo list to investigate, I have some deja vu about drawing in some Qt/Kirigami app and I can't remember if that was Marknote or something else.

frdbr added a comment.Feb 19 2025, 6:09 PM

OFf the top of my head, features that would make MarkNotes/KleverNotes a killer note-taking app:

I'll add that to my todo list to investigate, I have some deja vu about drawing in some Qt/Kirigami app and I can't remember if that was Marknote or something else.

reMarkable seems to have a nice app in case you'd like some inspiration as well.

Marknote already has a quick sketch module but it's very limited because it just insert an image in the markdown document which can not be edited afterward. It's nowhere as good as e.g. https://rnote.flxzt.net/ from GNOME. The format being markdown based makes it quite unrealistic to be implemented in the near future.

For text editor part of Marknote, it is currently limited by QTextDocument and we need a whole rewrite of the editor like https://rubymamistvalove.com/block-editor to fix many usability issues

And online/sync support is currently far out of reach, until more people get involved with the project.

Marknote already has a quick sketch module but it's very limited

It does? You can draw stuff in Marknote into a note? I can't see that feature.

because it just insert an image in the markdown document which can not be edited afterward.

It's nowhere as good as e.g. https://rnote.flxzt.net/ from GNOME. The format being markdown based makes it quite unrealistic to be implemented in the near future.

I am not sure we would need this out of the gate. Handwriting recognition I think would eb more important. I guess the od sketch would be useful, but, from what I understand, writing with a pen on the device and have it translated into type would be more of a priority.

For text editor part of Marknote, it is currently limited by QTextDocument and we need a whole rewrite of the editor like https://rubymamistvalove.com/block-editor to fix many usability issues

And online/sync support is currently far out of reach, until more people get involved with the project.

So the solution is more contributors and contributions? Would making the implementation of some of these features the subject matter of our mentorship program projects help, do you think?

A more fundamental question for me here is whether Marknote is the app we want to turn into an OneNote/Obsidian-like feature monster. My impression so far was that the idea of Marknote was to remain simpler than e.g. Klevernote. (Not that I would disagree with that direction, I'm not the biggest fan of simple apps, but this probably should be an explicit decision).

paulb added a comment.Feb 21 2025, 5:45 PM

A more fundamental question for me here is whether Marknote is the app we want to turn into an OneNote/Obsidian-like feature monster. My impression so far was that the idea of Marknote was to remain simpler than e.g. Klevernote. (Not that I would disagree with that direction, I'm not the biggest fan of simple apps, but this probably should be an explicit decision).

When we asked if there was anything specific they would like from KDE that wasn't available now, this is the one very specific thing (apart from more accessibility) they brought up. We have not heard back on what subset of OneNote's features they use, but we do know that they need what we mentioned above:

  • Handwriting recognition
  • Sharing
  • Attachments (which makes me think drag-and-drop)
  • Probably sketches

Whether this constitutes a springboard for a new, more feature-rich note-taking app, or can be added to one of the existing apps is up to you to decide; as is whether we can find the resources to carry this out.

Notwithstanding and regarding the latter, we are looking at this project of Schleswig-Holstein as a sample of what it will take to get into public administrations throughout Europe. If this is one of their needs, it may be reasonable to assume that other regional public administrations would have similar needs, which would make the effort worthwhile.

I'm definitely in favour of keeping MarkNote simple and if need be finding another app like Klevernotes or a new app that we can propose to them for this type of task.

Just saw this on Mastodon that I think is worth sharing. It links to this post: https://shom.dev/posts/20250308_pinenote-day-one/

Note that no KDE tech is being used.

paulb added a comment.Mar 17 2025, 1:01 PM

Just saw this on Mastodon that I think is worth sharing. It links to this post: https://shom.dev/posts/20250308_pinenote-day-one/

Note that no KDE tech is being used.

Unfortunately, the hardware is already in use. We would have to adapt to whatever they have already got. No, I don't know what that is yet. They have not answered my request for more info yet.

paulb added a comment.Mar 19 2025, 7:33 PM

Another Qt (but not KDE) note-taking app is QOwnNotes: https://www.qownnotes.org/

It is programed using Qt, has many of the features we are looking for and can share note over NextCloud/OwnCloud.

We could try and convince the dev to incubate it into KDE... Or not, and just suggest it to the Schleswig-Holstein people, maybe upstream some features that are missing.

I am currently trying it and it is a bit buggy (configuring sharing with a NextCloud instance works, but it throws an error about not finding the Notesfolder which is present.

Anyway, a candidate we can add to the list.