for (;;);{"error":null,"payload":{"timeline":"\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-older-transactions-are-hidden\" data-sigil=\"show-older-block\"\u003eThere are a very large number of changes, so older changes are hidden. \u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/showolder\/PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm\/?after=142217&quoteTargetID=UQ0_1&quoteRef=T8707\" data-mustcapture=\"1\" data-sigil=\"show-older-link\"\u003eShow Older Changes\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-142217\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_250\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/z7cnrvfsyjic3u45zed2\/PHID-FILE-7dqkmvwovjq4wppbdrom\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/hpereiradacosta\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"142217\" id=\"142217\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_249\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/hpereiradacosta\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003ehpereiradacosta\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#142217\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_248\"\u003eMay 16 2018, 3:28 AM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_246\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_247\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_149\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#142196\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_2\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#142196\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_3\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@ngraham\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#142195\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_1\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#142195\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/hpereiradacosta\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_4\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@hpereiradacosta\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003ethanks for the screenshots.\u003cbr \/\u003e\n For vlc this is due to broken installation. Mine does not look like that\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eIt's not a broken installation, it's the Flatpak version. Today's apps may look like that.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI want to further comment on this point because it is important: \u003cbr \/\u003e\nI am sorry: this _is_ a broken installation. If flatpak gives you that then flatpak must be fixed. Vlc folks (and Qt folks) have done some effort for vlc to integrate nicely in kde (not perfect, but better than the screenshot). If a technology to distribute the application breaks this effort the technology is broken. It must be changed or fixed. In no case should the broken technology be used as an argument for doing changes upstream (in our case in KDE style).\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eHere is how vlc looks here:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup-embed-layout-left\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/vmcaxr6hijpweklcxw7q\/PHID-FILE-u6xv7y2xhgpi23ol3o35\/Screenshot_20180516_052742.png\" class=\"phabricator-remarkup-embed-image\" data-sigil=\"lightboxable\" data-meta=\"0_0\"\u003e\u003cimg src=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/stnh6b2b4qhzwdsyz5w6\/PHID-FILE-5ef43nkndivpwx6suae5\/preview-Screenshot_20180516_052742.png\" width=\"220\" height=\"138.08510638298\" \/\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-142218\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_259\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"142218\" id=\"142218\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_258\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#142218\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_257\"\u003eMay 16 2018, 3:42 AM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_255\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_256\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_150\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eOK, so my VLC screenshot was a bad example. Flatpak is (in my opinion) a pretty good technology. It supports themes, and the visual bug in VLC is a packaging issue that will go away once \u003ca href=\"https:\/\/github.com\/flathub\/org.videolan.VLC\/issues\/2\" class=\"remarkup-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer\"\u003ehttps:\/\/github.com\/flathub\/org.videolan.VLC\/issues\/2\u003c\/a\u003e is resolved.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eHowever, the Snap version *will* look weird in Plasma because Snap currently has no support for themes at all. Despite this, it's being pushed by Canonical, and several Ubuntu apps ship as Snaps by default in Ubuntu 18.04.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThis is the world we find ourselves in today, sadly.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143176\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_268\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143176\" id=\"143176\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_267\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143176\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_266\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 1:15 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_264\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_265\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_151\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eI propose that we move forward here:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eTurn off side and bottom borders by default\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eTurn off the black triangle in the bottom-right corner when there are no borders by default\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eAccept that people who want rounded bottom corners will turn on bottom borders\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eBegin the process of tweaking the UI for QWidgets-based apps and windows that would benefit from having certain content areas touch the window edge with no visible frame there (just like our modern Kirigami-based apps do)\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eMake the case to KWin's maintainer for optionally rounding the bottom corners of borderless windows as an optional nice-to-have, not a mandatory need-to-have\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143178\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_271\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-minor-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/z7cnrvfsyjic3u45zed2\/PHID-FILE-7dqkmvwovjq4wppbdrom\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/hpereiradacosta\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143178\" id=\"143178\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-user-times phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_270\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/hpereiradacosta\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003ehpereiradacosta\u003c\/a\u003e removed a subscriber: \u003ca href=\"\/p\/hpereiradacosta\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_152\"\u003ehpereiradacosta\u003c\/a\u003e.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143178\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_269\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 1:27 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143179\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_280\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/p7lvqxswnnfzdlvrtsxg\/PHID-FILE-3xqamojrjoupplpxc5va\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143179\" id=\"143179\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_279\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003egraesslin\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143179\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_278\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 1:53 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_276\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_277\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_153\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003ePlease note that every window can specify the color scheme for the decoration. I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but it might be an interesting aspect to consider.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eFurthermore it would be possible to add hints to the decoration such as a suggested border size. This would allow the application to have more control and might be a better idea than adjusting the default.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eIn future please let me know when discussing anything which would require a default in KWin to be changed. The chances that I veto such a change are huge as I have a different view on the domain scope.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143180\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_289\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/p7lvqxswnnfzdlvrtsxg\/PHID-FILE-3xqamojrjoupplpxc5va\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143180\" id=\"143180\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_288\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003egraesslin\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143180\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_287\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 1:57 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_285\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_286\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_154\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143176\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_5\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143176\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_6\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@ngraham\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eI propose that we move forward here:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eTurn off side and bottom borders by default\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI'm against such a radical change by default. This makes it impossible to resize the window.\u003cbr \/\u003e\nLet's rather do this on an application case by case and experiment first with a few windows.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eMake the case to KWin's maintainer for optionally rounding the bottom corners of borderless windows as an optional nice-to-have, not a mandatory need-to-have\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eTechnically impossible for a compositor. On X11 it is possible, but KWin is feature frozen and on Wayland it is completely impossible.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143190\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_298\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/rqco73wohxakrcsm2m52\/PHID-FILE-zyhktif6eo2vmjvtvg5h\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143190\" id=\"143190\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_297\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003eabetts\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143190\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_296\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 2:15 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_294\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_295\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_155\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143180\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_8\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143180\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_9\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@graesslin\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143176\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_7\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143176\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_10\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@ngraham\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eI propose that we move forward here:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eTurn off side and bottom borders by default\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI'm against such a radical change by default. This makes it impossible to resize the window.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI don't agree with this reasoning. The window is resized just fine with, or without borders.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eLet's rather do this on an application case by case and experiment first with a few windows.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eMake the case to KWin's maintainer for optionally rounding the bottom corners of borderless windows as an optional nice-to-have, not a mandatory need-to-have\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eTechnically impossible for a compositor. On X11 it is possible, but KWin is feature frozen and on Wayland it is completely impossible.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143192\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_307\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/p7lvqxswnnfzdlvrtsxg\/PHID-FILE-3xqamojrjoupplpxc5va\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143192\" id=\"143192\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_306\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003egraesslin\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143192\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_305\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 2:19 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_303\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_304\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_156\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143190\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_13\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143190\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_14\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@abetts\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143180\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_12\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143180\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_15\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@graesslin\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143176\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_11\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143176\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_16\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@ngraham\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eI propose that we move forward here:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eTurn off side and bottom borders by default\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI'm against such a radical change by default. This makes it impossible to resize the window.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI don't agree with this reasoning. The window is resized just fine with, or without borders.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThat's what happens if you fast read. I read the comment that it would be impossible to resize.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eBut nevertheless I suggest to first experiment with some applications. The change is radical and users might have problems with the change. Not so experienced users might expect they need the borders to resize and taking them away by default could result in them not being able to resize the windows. Thus I suggest to first experiment with a few applications and wait for the feedback.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell phui-timeline-black\" id=\"anchor-143193\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_310\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/rqco73wohxakrcsm2m52\/PHID-FILE-zyhktif6eo2vmjvtvg5h\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143193\" id=\"143193\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill fill-has-color phui-timeline-icon-fill-black\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-trash phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_309\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003eabetts\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143193\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_308\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 2:22 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"comment-deleted\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_157\"\u003eThis comment was removed by \u003ca href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003eabetts\u003c\/a\u003e.\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143194\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_319\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143194\" id=\"143194\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_318\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143194\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_317\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 2:22 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_315\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_316\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_158\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143192\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_17\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143192\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_18\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@graesslin\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eBut nevertheless I suggest to first experiment with some applications. The change is radical and users might have problems with the change. Not so experienced users might expect they need the borders to resize and taking them away by default could result in them not being able to resize the windows.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThis is contrary to what is expected on all other platforms, where windows are resizable even with no visible borders. I don't think it's at all unusual or weird.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAside from the issue of rounded corners, on which I accept your technical reasoning, whether or not we ask KWin to draw borders by default is not really relevant to anything technical in KWin. The proposed change to use \u003cspan class=\"remarkup-nav-sequence\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-shade phui-tag-grey phui-tag-shade \"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core \"\u003eNo borders\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e instead of {Normal} by default is an aesthetic and design change, not a technical one. If you would like to participate in design discussions, perhaps you should consider joining the VDG? If that's not something you would like to do, then perhaps it would be best to stick to KWin's technical side.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAs mentioned before, if we don't change this setting, then every Kirigami-based app we write looks ugly, as well as many 3rd-party apps, as pointed out above. The status quo is not cost-less either. And we limit our design choices going forward. KDE apps look and behave just fine with \u003cspan class=\"remarkup-nav-sequence\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-shade phui-tag-grey phui-tag-shade \"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core \"\u003eNo Borders\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e. The whole point of doing this is to increase our freedom to make them look and behave \u003cem\u003eeven better\u003c\/em\u003e.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143195\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_328\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/rqco73wohxakrcsm2m52\/PHID-FILE-zyhktif6eo2vmjvtvg5h\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143195\" id=\"143195\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_327\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003eabetts\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143195\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_326\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 2:25 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_324\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_325\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_159\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143192\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_22\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143192\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_23\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@graesslin\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143190\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_21\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143190\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_24\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@abetts\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143180\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_20\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143180\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_25\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@graesslin\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143176\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_19\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143176\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_26\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@ngraham\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eI propose that we move forward here:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eTurn off side and bottom borders by default\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI'm against such a radical change by default. This makes it impossible to resize the window.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI don't agree with this reasoning. The window is resized just fine with, or without borders.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThat's what happens if you fast read. I read the comment that it would be impossible to resize.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eBut nevertheless I suggest to first experiment with some applications. The change is radical and users might have problems with the change. Not so experienced users might expect they need the borders to resize and taking them away by default could result in them not being able to resize the windows. Thus I suggest to first experiment with a few applications and wait for the feedback.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI hear a lot of "might" in the comments. I don't find this change "radical" at all. It is pretty much the norm across the industry.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143196\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_337\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/mdciup2zu45wkqo4z5yu\/PHID-FILE-wijr2tqdiosnjiigmuv3\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ltoscano\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143196\" id=\"143196\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-user-plus phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_336\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ltoscano\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003eltoscano\u003c\/a\u003e added a subscriber: \u003ca href=\"\/p\/ltoscano\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_160\"\u003eltoscano\u003c\/a\u003e.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143196\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_335\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 2:27 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_333\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_334\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_161\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143194\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_27\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143194\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_28\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@ngraham\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eAs mentioned before, if we don't change this setting, then every Kirigami-based app we write looks ugly, as well as many 3rd-party apps, as pointed out above.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eDoes this mean that Kirigami apps will always looks ugly if borders are (for any reason) enabled, while QWidgets applications looks "fine" in both scenarios?\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143198\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_346\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/p7lvqxswnnfzdlvrtsxg\/PHID-FILE-3xqamojrjoupplpxc5va\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143198\" id=\"143198\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_345\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003egraesslin\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143198\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_344\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 2:29 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_342\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_343\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_162\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eThe decoration border sizes are an accessibility feature. That's why they are designed as a KWin config property and not as a decoration\/theme property. I know it, because I implemented it. Given that I disagree on that this is only a change affecting VDG, but a change which affects my technical expertise. I urge you to consider that I have experience of > 10 years on working with the decorations. Please don't just discard my feedback.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143199\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_355\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/p7lvqxswnnfzdlvrtsxg\/PHID-FILE-3xqamojrjoupplpxc5va\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143199\" id=\"143199\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_354\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003egraesslin\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143199\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_353\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 2:32 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_351\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_352\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_163\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143194\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_29\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143194\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_30\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@ngraham\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eAs mentioned before, if we don't change this setting, then every Kirigami-based app we write looks ugly, as well as many 3rd-party apps, as pointed out above.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI outlined three possibilities to address this:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003euse the existing color scheme feature\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eintroduce a new suggested border size feature\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eexperiment with some (for example Kirigami) applications for this change\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eGiven that I find your response not optimal. You did not even consider any of the possibilities I outlined. As the domain expert on window decorations I find this sad.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143200\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_364\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/rqco73wohxakrcsm2m52\/PHID-FILE-zyhktif6eo2vmjvtvg5h\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143200\" id=\"143200\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_363\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003eabetts\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143200\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_362\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 2:33 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_360\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_361\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_164\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143198\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_31\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143198\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_32\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@graesslin\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eThe decoration border sizes are an accessibility feature. That's why they are designed as a KWin config property and not as a decoration\/theme property. I know it, because I implemented it. Given that I disagree on that this is only a change affecting VDG, but a change which affects my technical expertise. I urge you to consider that I have experience of > 10 years on working with the decorations. Please don't just discard my feedback.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eNo one is belittling your experience. But your experience is not the law. I don't appreciate it when people work so hard on making a change that is widely supported, only to stumble on your experience to undo everything I am working on. I have more than 10 years of experience in visual design and I hope that you come to the side of evolution.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThis idea of making borders an accessibility feature applies to people that need it. For them, we have the option to turn them on. However, you can't assume that 100% of people need this feature just because you have 10 years of experience. Allow this change.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143201\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_373\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/p7lvqxswnnfzdlvrtsxg\/PHID-FILE-3xqamojrjoupplpxc5va\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143201\" id=\"143201\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_372\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003egraesslin\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143201\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_371\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 2:33 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_369\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_370\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_165\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143195\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_37\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143195\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_38\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@abetts\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143192\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_36\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143192\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_39\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@graesslin\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143190\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_35\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143190\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_40\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@abetts\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143180\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_34\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143180\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_41\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@graesslin\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143176\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_33\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143176\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_42\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@ngraham\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eI propose that we move forward here:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eTurn off side and bottom borders by default\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI'm against such a radical change by default. This makes it impossible to resize the window.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI don't agree with this reasoning. The window is resized just fine with, or without borders.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThat's what happens if you fast read. I read the comment that it would be impossible to resize.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eBut nevertheless I suggest to first experiment with some applications. The change is radical and users might have problems with the change. Not so experienced users might expect they need the borders to resize and taking them away by default could result in them not being able to resize the windows. Thus I suggest to first experiment with a few applications and wait for the feedback.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI hear a lot of "might" in the comments. I don't find this change "radical" at all. It is pretty much the norm across the industry.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eYes, because that's how I write and speak. For me is everything might, could and maybe.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143203\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_383\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143203\" id=\"143203\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_382\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003eEdited\u003cspan class=\"visual-only\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e \u00b7 \u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143203\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_381\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 2:34 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_379\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_380\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_166\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eI disagree that it's an accessibility feature:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eWindows can be resized just fine without the borders being visible\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eCursor hints that indicate resizability still appear when there are no visible borders\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eWindow resize areas (the "virtual border") remain large enough to trigger without precise mousing even without the borders being visible\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eAll other major platforms (Windows, macOS, GNOME) have borderless windows, which has habituated users to the idea that borderless windows are resizable if it wasn't already obvious enough\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003ePeople who want huge visible resize areas can turn borders on and make them as large as they want; we're not removing any functionality, just changing a default\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI don't think there are any accessibility concerns at play here.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143204\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_392\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/rqco73wohxakrcsm2m52\/PHID-FILE-zyhktif6eo2vmjvtvg5h\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143204\" id=\"143204\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_391\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003eabetts\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143204\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_390\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 2:34 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_388\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_389\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_167\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143199\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_44\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143199\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_45\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@graesslin\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143194\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_43\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143194\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_46\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@ngraham\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eAs mentioned before, if we don't change this setting, then every Kirigami-based app we write looks ugly, as well as many 3rd-party apps, as pointed out above.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI outlined three possibilities to address this:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003euse the existing color scheme feature\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eintroduce a new suggested border size feature\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eexperiment with some (for example Kirigami) applications for this change\n\u003cbr \/\u003e\u003cbr \/\u003e\nGiven that I find your response not optimal. You did not even consider any of the possibilities I outlined. As the domain expert on window decorations I find this sad.\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWe already had discussions around this, you weren't part of them. We had them in the VDG channel on Telegram. I recommend that you become part of the discussion process.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143205\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_401\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/p7lvqxswnnfzdlvrtsxg\/PHID-FILE-3xqamojrjoupplpxc5va\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143205\" id=\"143205\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_400\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003egraesslin\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143205\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_399\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 2:37 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_397\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_398\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_168\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143200\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_48\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143200\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_55\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@abetts\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143198\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_47\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143198\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_56\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@graesslin\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eThe decoration border sizes are an accessibility feature. That's why they are designed as a KWin config property and not as a decoration\/theme property. I know it, because I implemented it. Given that I disagree on that this is only a change affecting VDG, but a change which affects my technical expertise. I urge you to consider that I have experience of > 10 years on working with the decorations. Please don't just discard my feedback.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eNo one is belittling your experience. But your experience is not the law. I don't appreciate it when people work so hard on making a change that is widely supported, only to stumble on your experience to undo everything I am working on. I have more than 10 years of experience in visual design and I hope that you come to the side of evolution.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThis idea of making borders an accessibility feature applies to people that need it. For them, we have the option to turn them on. However, you can't assume that 100% of people need this feature just because you have 10 years of experience. Allow this change.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePlease consider to experiment with a few application before doing a change affecting all. That is my request as the maintainer.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143204\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_51\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143204\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_52\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@abetts\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143199\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_50\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143199\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_53\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@graesslin\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143194\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_49\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143194\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_54\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@ngraham\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eAs mentioned before, if we don't change this setting, then every Kirigami-based app we write looks ugly, as well as many 3rd-party apps, as pointed out above.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI outlined three possibilities to address this:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003euse the existing color scheme feature\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eintroduce a new suggested border size feature\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eexperiment with some (for example Kirigami) applications for this change\n\u003cbr \/\u003e\u003cbr \/\u003e\nGiven that I find your response not optimal. You did not even consider any of the possibilities I outlined. As the domain expert on window decorations I find this sad.\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWe already had discussions around this, you weren't part of them. We had them in the VDG channel on Telegram. I recommend that you become part of the discussion process.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eNo, this thread does not contain any of the suggestions I did. Saying that my opinions are discarded because I was not part on a not official KDE communication channel is not OK. That is not how we work together in the community!\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI'm not going to block this change, but I want that my opinions are not discarded like that and I want that this change is experimented with a few selected applications.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143206\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_410\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143206\" id=\"143206\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_409\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143206\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_408\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 2:38 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_406\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_407\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_169\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143199\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_58\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143199\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_59\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@graesslin\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143194\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_57\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143194\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_60\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@ngraham\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eAs mentioned before, if we don't change this setting, then every Kirigami-based app we write looks ugly, as well as many 3rd-party apps, as pointed out above.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI outlined three possibilities to address this:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003euse the existing color scheme feature\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eDoesn't work when different elements on the page that want to touch the edge have different colors.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eintroduce a new suggested border size feature\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eDoesn't work for the same reason; a single edge may have some elements that should touch the edge, and othes that should not. This should be up to the App's designer, not the window manager.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eexperiment with some (for example Kirigami) applications for this change\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThere's no need to experiment because we already know they look bad with borders and better without them.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eAs the domain expert on window decorations I find this sad.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eRespectfully, Martin, your years of experience pertain to technical areas, not design. I don't try to tell you how to program KWin. Please do VDG the respect of not telling them how to design things.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143207\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_419\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/p7lvqxswnnfzdlvrtsxg\/PHID-FILE-3xqamojrjoupplpxc5va\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143207\" id=\"143207\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_418\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003egraesslin\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143207\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_417\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 2:42 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_415\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_416\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_170\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143206\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_63\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143206\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_64\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@ngraham\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143199\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_62\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143199\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_65\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@graesslin\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143194\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_61\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143194\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_66\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@ngraham\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eAs mentioned before, if we don't change this setting, then every Kirigami-based app we write looks ugly, as well as many 3rd-party apps, as pointed out above.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI outlined three possibilities to address this:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003euse the existing color scheme feature\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eDoesn't work when different elements on the page that want to touch the edge have different colors.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ewhat about extending it to provide more control to the applications?\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eintroduce a new suggested border size feature\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eDoesn't work for the same reason; a single edge may have some elements that should touch the edge, and othes that should not. This should be up to the App's designer, not the window manager.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eErm that is exactly what you want. You want zero by default and you tell me it wouldn't work if a protocol is used for that?\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eexperiment with some (for example Kirigami) applications for this change\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThere's no need to experiment because we already know they look bad with borders and better without them.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAnd why not make all Kirigami applications be the experiment.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eAs the domain expert on window decorations I find this sad.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eRespectfully, Martin, your years of experience pertain to technical areas, not design. I don't try to tell you how to program KWin. Please do VDG the respect of not telling them how to design things.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI'm not telling you how to design. But maybe you want my technical experience on how to achieve what you want in the best way. I with my technical experience suggest that turning the default is not the best solution to what you want to achieve. Instead I suggest to come up with new technical solutions. How about that?\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143217\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_428\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143217\" id=\"143217\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_427\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143217\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_426\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 2:57 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_424\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_425\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_171\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143196\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_68\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143196\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/ltoscano\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_69\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@ltoscano\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143194\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_67\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143194\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_70\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@ngraham\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eAs mentioned before, if we don't change this setting, then every Kirigami-based app we write looks ugly, as well as many 3rd-party apps, as pointed out above.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eDoes this mean that Kirigami apps will always looks ugly if borders are (for any reason) enabled, while QWidgets applications looks "fine" in both scenarios?\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThat's our view, yes.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThere are a few QWidgets-based apps where, if the borders are turned off, a content area has one or two pixels between it and the window border (e.g. Dolphin's main view). This looks just fine, but part of the goal here is to be able to make it look even \u003cem\u003ebetter\u003c\/em\u003e by getting rid of those few pixels and having the content area touch the window edge with no additional border, just like our modern Kirigami apps do, where it looks really really good.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143218\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_438\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143218\" id=\"143218\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_437\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003eEdited\u003cspan class=\"visual-only\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e \u00b7 \u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143218\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_436\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 3:04 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_434\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_435\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_172\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143207\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_71\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143207\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_74\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@graesslin\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eintroduce a new suggested border size feature\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eDoesn't work for the same reason; a single edge may have some elements that should touch the edge, and othes that should not. This should be up to the App's designer, not the window manager.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eErm that is exactly what you want. You want zero by default and you tell me it wouldn't work if a protocol is used for that?\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI see what you mean now. You mean, that some apps could request borders, and other wouldn't? That could make sense, but I don't think it's necessary for several reasons:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eMost 3rd-party apps look bad with borders and in practice, they're never going to change their code to add the hook\/hint to request no borders. So we would need for the default to be "off" to catch all of those cases.\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eAll of our Kirigami-based apps would want it off, too, for reasons mentioned many times in this thread and in the original description at the top.\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eAll of our QWidgets apps already look fine with no borders, so they would in practice be the only clients who would ever conceivably request borders. But this would be contrary to our design goals since it would prevent us from achieving the original idea of allowing the apps' content areas to touch the window edges with no borders. An app that \u003cem\u003eeffectively\u003c\/em\u003e wants borders can just do it themselves in a different way already: by simply arranging controls such that they don't touch the window edge (and in fact, nearly all of the controls in nearly all of our QWidgets apps already do this).\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eSo I appreciate the thoughtful suggestion, but I'm afraid I still don't think it makes sense given our design goals.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143207\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_72\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143207\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_73\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@graesslin\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eexperiment with some (for example Kirigami) applications for this change\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThere's no need to experiment because we already know they look bad with borders and better without them.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAnd why not make all Kirigami applications be the experiment.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThey already are. They look bad with our default setting of \u003cspan class=\"remarkup-nav-sequence\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-shade phui-tag-grey phui-tag-shade \"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core \"\u003eNormal\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e borders. They look better without them. Our QWidgets apps don't look worse without them. Wee think it's a net win even without any changes to our QWidgets apps to make them look even better (which we plan to make).\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eI'm not telling you how to design. But maybe you want my technical experience on how to achieve what you want in the best way. I with my technical experience suggest that turning the default is not the best solution to what you want to achieve. Instead I suggest to come up with new technical solutions. How about that?\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThanks for offering your technical expertise here. I hope I've adequately addressed all your points above.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143224\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_447\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/p7lvqxswnnfzdlvrtsxg\/PHID-FILE-3xqamojrjoupplpxc5va\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143224\" id=\"143224\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_446\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003egraesslin\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143224\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_445\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 4:38 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_443\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_444\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_173\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eI'll now provide some technical detail behind the dropdown and the options. This was never meant to be a designable option. If you compare kdecoration 1 and 2 you will notice that the decoration border size moved from being a per-deco to a global option. The main reason for this was that KWin considers the border size to be an accessibility feature which is so important that themes are not allowed to influence it. The decoration theme engine I wrote (Aurorae) provides a high level of customization to the theme designers, but borders sizes are not included. Exactly because it's an important accessibility feature.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThis is the technical background of the option. Given that background I consider it as a wrong decision to change the default to no border or no side border. I understand your desire to change this for a visual different appearance, but I think that changing that default is wrong from a technical perspective.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThus I would appreciate if instead of switching the default we look for a way which accomplishes what you intend without destroying the technical design of kdecoration.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143228\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_450\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-minor-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jbfsbvbimq2loryxnupm\/PHID-FILE-c6wgaicqxp3t5tckrqym\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/zzag\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143228\" id=\"143228\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-user-times phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_449\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/zzag\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003ezzag\u003c\/a\u003e removed a subscriber: \u003ca href=\"\/p\/zzag\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_174\"\u003ezzag\u003c\/a\u003e.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143228\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_448\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 4:40 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143230\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_459\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/p7lvqxswnnfzdlvrtsxg\/PHID-FILE-3xqamojrjoupplpxc5va\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143230\" id=\"143230\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_458\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003egraesslin\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143230\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_457\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 4:45 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_455\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_456\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_175\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eI just looked through the list of aurorae themes I have installed and there are quite a few which visually break with no side borders. Please also think about the consequences for themes not being the default theme which you can influence. (Although it looks like Aurorae always renders at least 1 pixel for no border).\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143231\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_468\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/p7lvqxswnnfzdlvrtsxg\/PHID-FILE-3xqamojrjoupplpxc5va\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143231\" id=\"143231\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_467\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003egraesslin\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143231\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_466\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 4:49 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_464\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_465\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_176\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143230\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_75\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143230\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_76\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@graesslin\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003e(Although it looks like Aurorae always renders at least 1 pixel for no border).\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eLooking at the code Aurorae does not support NoSideBorder and NoBorder.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143232\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_478\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143232\" id=\"143232\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_477\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003eEdited\u003cspan class=\"visual-only\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e \u00b7 \u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143232\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_476\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 4:49 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_474\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_475\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_177\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003ch3 class=\"remarkup-header\"\u003eAccessibility\u003c\/h3\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI believe I addressed all the concerns that turning off borders had accessibility implications here: \u003ca href=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/T8707#143203\" class=\"remarkup-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer\"\u003ehttps:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/T8707#143203\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eIf I have not done that thoroughly enough, please feel free to refute my points and I'll respond accordingly.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003ch3 class=\"remarkup-header\"\u003eTheme issues\u003c\/h3\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eIf you have a better technical option that gets us windows that are visually borderless, I'm all for it. But I'm not going to accept a technical solution that prevents borderlessness because that would be contrary to the entire goal here.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eImposing minor costs on non-default 3rd party themes is not a good argument against making changes necessary to advance the design and improve the look and feel, especially because there is a \u003cstrong\u003etrivial\u003c\/strong\u003e solution for this case: just go and turn back on window borders if you prefer them. People who use non-default themes are capable of switching one GUI setting that's in a fairly obvious place.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143231\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_77\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143231\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_78\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@graesslin\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eLooking at the code Aurorae does not support NoSideBorder and NoBorder.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eSounds like a bug in Aurorae to me. I hope you would agree with me that we shouldn't work around downstream bugs.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143233\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_487\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/p7lvqxswnnfzdlvrtsxg\/PHID-FILE-3xqamojrjoupplpxc5va\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143233\" id=\"143233\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_486\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003egraesslin\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143233\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_485\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 5:07 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_483\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_484\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_178\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eIf I have not done that thoroughly enough, please feel free to refute my points and I'll respond accordingly.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAs I mentioned previously I think borders are needed for users not so affiliate with the concept of borderless windows. In that aspect it doesn't matter what other environments do. We need to consider users who have never used anything else. Supporting elderly people is also part of accessibility. Given that I think the suggested change has accessibility implications even if it is possible to change it.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eIf you have a better technical option that gets us windows that are visually borderless, I'm all for it. But I'm not going to accept a technical solution that prevents borderlessness because that would be contrary to the entire goal here.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eCan we take a step back here without going into absolutes. If your decision is to have everything borderless and you are not willing to move from that, then we don't need to look for technical solutions.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWhat I normally do is ask for what your requirements are. And no it's not "it needs to be borderless", because that's the technical implementation provided by KWin. Please assume you wouldn't know that this option exists and describe what you visually want to achieve. Explain it as detailed as possible. Then I can have a look at it and suggest a technical solution which works in general. From what I got in this discussion is that you are not all happy with the no border. You would like to have round bottoms, but that doesn't work because it doesn't work with the no border option. If we take a step back to look at the big picture from a distance without having settled for the technical decision yet, I am quite certain that we can come up with a more pleasant experience considering all your design wishes.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI hope that a Wayland only solution could be acceptable to you. What I'm a little bit afraid of with this change is that we now drift into an area where we basically go client side decoration without taking the benefits of client side decorations. You want more customization for the look to the applications, which is what csd is about. But you stick (rightfully) to server side decoration. I don't think that this is really what you want. So let's work together to find the best solution for you. And yes I have some ideas, but I won't present them yet. I want to hear your requirements to check whether it matches my ideas first.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eSounds like a bug in Aurorae to me. I hope you would agree with me that we shouldn't work around downstream bugs.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eProbably not. Given that I implemented both Aurorae and KDecoration I doubt that this was not a deliberate decision. NoSideBorder and NoBorder used to be Oxygen specific options in Plasma 4. With KDecoration2 I moved them into the library. Aurorae always wanted to give visual flexibility to designers. A setting like NoBorder breaks the design. Thus it was not possible to introduce those options in a backward compatible way.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143234\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_496\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/34kjhz7y2xvch6zim5z2\/PHID-FILE-txxzw4dmfn4kyum4jbb3\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/Fuchs\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143234\" id=\"143234\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_495\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/Fuchs\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003eFuchs\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143234\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_494\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 5:15 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_492\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_493\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_179\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143200\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_79\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143200\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_80\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@abetts\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eNo one is belittling your experience. But your experience is not the law. I don't appreciate it when people work so hard on making a change that is widely supported, only to stumble on your experience to undo everything I am working on. I have more than 10 years of experience in visual design and I hope that you come to the side of evolution.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAnd exactly this is why people, both on phab and the VDG Telegram group, in various cases (including this one) asked to get the maintainers in as soon as possible, and not have them  presented with a fait accompli, which might result in hours of work being overturned. Could we please please please start doing this?\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAlso note that rounded corners are now dead for technical reasons, and as far as I remember the discussion it was said that borderless without it might not look like we want it to, so reconsider that as well.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143235\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_505\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/rqco73wohxakrcsm2m52\/PHID-FILE-zyhktif6eo2vmjvtvg5h\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143235\" id=\"143235\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_504\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003eabetts\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143235\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_503\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 5:17 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_501\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_502\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_180\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143234\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_82\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143234\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/Fuchs\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_83\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@Fuchs\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143200\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_81\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143200\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_84\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@abetts\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eNo one is belittling your experience. But your experience is not the law. I don't appreciate it when people work so hard on making a change that is widely supported, only to stumble on your experience to undo everything I am working on. I have more than 10 years of experience in visual design and I hope that you come to the side of evolution.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAnd exactly this is why people, both on phab and the VDG Telegram group, in various cases (including this one) asked to get the maintainers in as soon as possible, and not have them  presented with a fait accompli, which might result in hours of work being overturned. Could we please please please start doing this?\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAlso note that rounded corners are now dead for technical reasons, and as far as I remember the discussion it was said that borderless without it might not look like we want it to, so reconsider that as well.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThere wasn't a forma idea until this ticket. Martin does not want to be in Telegram, so we can't really include him until a ticket is made.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143236\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_515\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143236\" id=\"143236\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_514\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003eEdited\u003cspan class=\"visual-only\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e \u00b7 \u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143236\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_513\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 5:17 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_511\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_512\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_181\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eIt's all at the top, in the initial description.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003ch3 class=\"remarkup-header\"\u003eThe problem\u003c\/h3\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThe default borders make a lot of our and everybody else's software look ugly, and prevent app design choices that require allowing elements to touch the window edge.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003ch3 class=\"remarkup-header\"\u003eThe proposed solution\u003c\/h3\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eRemove the borders and let apps determine their own design, including which elements they want to touch the window edge.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eIf you're willing to help solve this problem with a superior technical solution (especially one that preserves the rounded bottom corners), then as I said, I welcome it. I would be interested in hearing your technical proposal, as long as that technical proposal actually solves both of the stated problems.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143237\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_524\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143237\" id=\"143237\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_523\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143237\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_522\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 5:18 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_520\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_521\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_182\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143235\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_85\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143235\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_86\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@abetts\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eThere wasn't a forma idea until this ticket. Martin does not want to be in Telegram, so we can't really include him until a ticket is made.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThe VDG room is bridged to IRC, so Telegram isn't even required.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143238\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_533\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/rqco73wohxakrcsm2m52\/PHID-FILE-zyhktif6eo2vmjvtvg5h\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143238\" id=\"143238\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_532\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003eabetts\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143238\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_531\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 5:19 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_529\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_530\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_183\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143237\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_88\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143237\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_89\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@ngraham\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143235\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_87\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143235\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_90\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@abetts\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eThere wasn't a forma idea until this ticket. Martin does not want to be in Telegram, so we can't really include him until a ticket is made.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThe VDG room is bridged to IRC, so Telegram isn't even required.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI don't think he does IRC either. Prefers email.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143241\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_542\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143241\" id=\"143241\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_541\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143241\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_540\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 5:46 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_538\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_539\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_184\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eLet me also say, Martin, that I totally get that there are right ways and wrong ways to implement changes. Like you, I disapprove of implementing the right change in the wrong place.  And if your technical solution solves the problem better than this one does, I think we'll take it. Even better if we keep the rounded bottom corners!\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePlease keep in mind that the whole design goal is to allow borderlessness. We also want this capability to be universal, so requiring action from individual apps to turn this on is not going to work because in reality, virtually no 3rd party apps will go out of their way to support this, or even accept patches to do it. I would also be wary of a solution so complicated and technical that it will most likely never get done, or take years. There is no need for this simple first step to turn into its own major project.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWith those boundaries set, I welcome your proposal!\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143242\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_551\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/p7lvqxswnnfzdlvrtsxg\/PHID-FILE-3xqamojrjoupplpxc5va\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143242\" id=\"143242\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_550\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003egraesslin\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143242\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_549\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 6:23 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_547\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_548\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_185\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eFirst on all about how to reach me: please don't expect me to hang around in telegram or irc to wait for anything design related touching my expertise. That's not possible, I just cannot monitor everything, my time is limited. Instead reach out to me or anybody else when you have something which requires my or anybody else feedback. Don't come up with technical solutions leave that to the technical experts, just like we technical experts should not come up with design solutions. I must say I found this process today frustrating and reading your answer I have a feeling that it was also very frustrating for you as well. I don't want to fight with you, we are in the same boat. But technical decisions should be done by those best understanding the technical area, for that you need to bring us into the boat quite early. I'm glad that I found this today by chance as if you would have opened a review for the change in KWin, I would have vetoed it.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eNow to my ideas. From what I understand you want to have the content area under application control while at the same time keeping to server side decorations. I will now divide and conquer the problem scope. QWidget based applications -> don't touch, breeze works just fine with normal decorations, it looks visually fit. For QWidget based applications which could benefit from it (Konsole comes to my mind) use breeze window specific settings to enable no side borders.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThird party applications: -> CSD. That's the "default" on Wayland anyway. If applications need control over their look, they need to take care of it themselves. We can only provide kludges (and yes no borders would be just that).\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eKirigami and similar applications where we control the code. This is the interesting part where we need to find something better than no borders to keep round borders. Here I would base it on ideas taken from Wayland and from our shadow mechanism. I see two possible solutions.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eProposal a) Make the window render a content larger than the actual input area. This is what the xdg shell protocol does by default. The idea would be that the application controls the complete content below the top decoration and just provides hints to the compositor about where to provide resize handles. Technical challenges for this solution are:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eWayland only\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eKWin has difficulties with this approach in general, but that needs fixing. If KDE asks for it, I would be significantly more motivated to work on it.\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003ehow to handle the shadow area where it goes into the decoration?\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eQt might need adjustments to support this\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eProposal b) Use the shadow protocol provided by KWin. That is used for example by Plasma applets to draw their shadows and also to draw round borders. Again the idea would be that the complete area below the top decoration is a drawing canvas for the decoration. E.g. that could allow round borders by using an alpha area. The shadow though, is provided through the shadow protocol. If that happens KWin changes the behavior of the decoration to no border and renders the shadows provided by the application instead of the decoration.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAdvantages over the other approach:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003ewould work on both Wayland and X11\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003ewe have all the code available, also as library code for both X11 and Wayland\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003einside KWin no technical challenges, easy to integrate\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eTechnical challenges:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eagain the overlap area to the normal decoration is tricky, suggestion: a protocol between the decoration and the widget style to communicate (we used to have this in Oxygen)\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eIf you have any further questions on these proposals please don't hesitate to ask. Maybe I didn't explain everything properly and it's also a quick shot. Normally I take about a week to think about a good solution. So please don't dismiss immediately. Give me the time to think more about it, but also take the time yourself to think about it.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eBasically what I just designed is a mixture of client side decoration and server side decoration. What I don't want to see is that we pick the worst out of both options. Either we find a good solution or we live with the advantages and disadvantages of SSD or CSD. Given the thread here I feel you haven't made up your mind on whether you want CSD or SSD. You picked something in between, which feels to me even weirder than CSD. If I had to pick between the option you presented and CSD I would pick CSD. And I think it's well known that I'm not a supporter of CSD due to the usability disadvantages.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143245\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_560\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143245\" id=\"143245\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_559\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143245\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_558\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 6:53 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_556\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_557\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_186\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eDoes any part of your proposal add the risk that any windows which currently have nice shadows under Wayland or X11 would fail to request shadows and therefore get none?\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143264\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_569\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/4x7jnoymqakt2k62iq6s\/PHID-FILE-dyvnxc3qpwil3exiiicm\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/alex-l\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143264\" id=\"143264\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-user-plus phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_568\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/alex-l\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003ealex-l\u003c\/a\u003e added a subscriber: \u003ca href=\"\/p\/alex-l\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_187\"\u003ealex-l\u003c\/a\u003e.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143264\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_567\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 9:12 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_565\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_566\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_188\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003e+1 for no-side borders by default. Also, titlebar and bottom border can have custom colors using KWin rules (for example if a distro ships Telegram it can ship in the same package a KWin rule to match colors), so consistency is not a issue there. The real issue is that apps draw widget near the side borders, so we just need to disable them by default. I use this settings since KDE4 and I have no issues with it.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143269\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_578\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jbfsbvbimq2loryxnupm\/PHID-FILE-c6wgaicqxp3t5tckrqym\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/zzag\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143269\" id=\"143269\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_577\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/zzag\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003ezzag\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143269\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_576\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 9:31 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_574\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_575\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_189\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143264\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_92\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143264\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/alex-l\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_93\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@alex-l\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003e+1 for no-side borders by default. Also, titlebar and bottom border can have custom colors using KWin rules (for example if a distro ships Telegram it can ship in the same package a KWin rule to match colors), so consistency is not a issue there. The real issue is that apps draw widget near the side borders, so we just need to disable them by default. I use this settings since KDE4 and I have no issues with it.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThat's okay only for windows with white background. For example,\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup-embed-layout-left\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/sgh4u7th65smsxkqey6f\/PHID-FILE-tlh7abj6kqatjkyb66sk\/Screenshot_20180522_001851.png\" class=\"phabricator-remarkup-embed-image\" data-sigil=\"lightboxable\" data-meta=\"0_91\"\u003e\u003cimg src=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/qy6cmxh2ktlkp46hoohf\/PHID-FILE-c6hgahdubwnv2rxfkgrf\/preview-Screenshot_20180522_001851.png\" width=\"220\" height=\"176.78135405105\" \/\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ehere's Google Chrome in Incognito mode. At least for me, that's really awkward.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143270\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_587\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/rqco73wohxakrcsm2m52\/PHID-FILE-zyhktif6eo2vmjvtvg5h\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143270\" id=\"143270\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-user-plus phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_586\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003eabetts\u003c\/a\u003e added a subscriber: \u003ca href=\"\/p\/zzag\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_190\"\u003ezzag\u003c\/a\u003e.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143270\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_585\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 9:33 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_583\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_584\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_191\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143269\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_96\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143269\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/zzag\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_97\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@zzag\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143264\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_95\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143264\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/alex-l\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_98\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@alex-l\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003e+1 for no-side borders by default. Also, titlebar and bottom border can have custom colors using KWin rules (for example if a distro ships Telegram it can ship in the same package a KWin rule to match colors), so consistency is not a issue there. The real issue is that apps draw widget near the side borders, so we just need to disable them by default. I use this settings since KDE4 and I have no issues with it.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThat's okay only for windows with white background. For example,\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup-embed-layout-left\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/sgh4u7th65smsxkqey6f\/PHID-FILE-tlh7abj6kqatjkyb66sk\/Screenshot_20180522_001851.png\" class=\"phabricator-remarkup-embed-image\" data-sigil=\"lightboxable\" data-meta=\"0_94\"\u003e\u003cimg src=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/qy6cmxh2ktlkp46hoohf\/PHID-FILE-c6hgahdubwnv2rxfkgrf\/preview-Screenshot_20180522_001851.png\" width=\"220\" height=\"176.78135405105\" \/\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ehere's Google Chrome in Incognito mode. At least for me, that's really awkward.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eIs there a method to have the bottom border copy the color of the UI?\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143272\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_596\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143272\" id=\"143272\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_595\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143272\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_594\"\u003eMay 21 2018, 9:34 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_592\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_593\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_192\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143270\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_100\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143270\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_101\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@abetts\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eIs there a method to have the bottom border copy the color of the UI?\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThat can't work when there's more than one color on an edge. See the very first image of Discover:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup-embed-layout-left\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/im4w53npsuomhokkzo7c\/PHID-FILE-fgml4uloelkh42omzs33\/Discover_with_borders.png\" class=\"phabricator-remarkup-embed-image\" data-sigil=\"lightboxable\" data-meta=\"0_99\"\u003e\u003cimg src=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/7n57kde7j6fubbfevpkq\/PHID-FILE-pkrwwsr27xdijzm44j5p\/preview-Discover_with_borders.png\" width=\"220\" height=\"170.92491838955\" \/\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143274\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_605\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/p7lvqxswnnfzdlvrtsxg\/PHID-FILE-3xqamojrjoupplpxc5va\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143274\" id=\"143274\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_604\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003egraesslin\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143274\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_603\"\u003eMay 22 2018, 4:21 AM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_601\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_602\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_193\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143245\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_102\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143245\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_103\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@ngraham\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eDoes any part of your proposal add the risk that any windows which currently have nice shadows under Wayland or X11 would fail to request shadows and therefore get none?\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eNo.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143275\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_614\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143275\" id=\"143275\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_613\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143275\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_612\"\u003eMay 22 2018, 4:55 AM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_610\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_611\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_194\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eOk, great! Can you clarify whether or not your proposal:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eAllows us to turn off KWin-drawn borders for all 3rd-party GTK\/Electron\/openGL\/XUL\/etc app windows?\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eAllows us to turn off KWin-drawn borders for all Kirigami\/QML\/Plasma-style app windows?\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eAllows us to turn off KWin-drawn borders selectively for QWidgets-based app windows (I think we can compromise on this)?\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eAllows us to have rounded bottom corners for windows on both X11 and Wayland that have no KWin-drawn borders?\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eEnsures that all windows retain consistent shadows?\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eIs technically implementable within a span of days or weeks rather than months or years?\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eIs something you're willing to do (sorry, I lack the domain knowledge to help)?\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143426\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_623\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/p7lvqxswnnfzdlvrtsxg\/PHID-FILE-3xqamojrjoupplpxc5va\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143426\" id=\"143426\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_622\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003egraesslin\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143426\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_621\"\u003eMay 22 2018, 2:40 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_619\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_620\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_195\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143275\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_104\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143275\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_105\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@ngraham\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eOk, great! Can you clarify whether or not your proposal:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eAllows us to turn off KWin-drawn borders for all 3rd-party GTK\/Electron\/openGL\/XUL\/etc app windows?\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ePlease see my comment on this. I suggest that 3rd-party applications should use CSD, as for example GTK already does. Even using the no border functionality of KWin will give a sub-optimal result as you won't have round borders. It would be impossible to visually distinguish a maximized from a not maximized window.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eApart from that: yes, 3rd-party code could use our functionality (e.g. we certainly should get GTK to use our superior solutions on Plasma), but I consider it unlikely that this would happen. And yes we can turn of windows on an application basis, except for anything Electron based as that is not ICCCM compliant and broken beyond repair on X11.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eAllows us to turn off KWin-drawn borders for all Kirigami\/QML\/Plasma-style app windows?\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eyes.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eAllows us to turn off KWin-drawn borders selectively for QWidgets-based app windows (I think we can compromise on this)?\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eyes.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eAllows us to have rounded bottom corners for windows on both X11 and Wayland that have no KWin-drawn borders?\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eyes for any applications using our functionality. Anything not using our functionality will not get magically fixed.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eEnsures that all windows retain consistent shadows?\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003efor applications using our functionality we can guarantee that. For 3rd party applications using CSD we have no control about it, just like now.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eIs technically implementable within a span of days or weeks rather than months or years?\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI cannot comment on the effort in Kirigami, but in KWin I estimate it to be at max a few days.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eIs something you're willing to do (sorry, I lack the domain knowledge to help)?\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI would be willing to do the change in KWin, but due to my limited amount of time I cannot guarantee that it will happen in a timely manner. I guess I could hack together a proof of concept quite quickly. Also the code in KWin is not difficult, I could easily point you to the right points and I don't think it would be more work for you than for me.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143427\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_632\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143427\" id=\"143427\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_631\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143427\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_630\"\u003eMay 22 2018, 3:08 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_628\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_629\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_196\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143426\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_106\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143426\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_107\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@graesslin\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003ePlease see my comment on this. I suggest that 3rd-party applications should use CSD, as for example GTK already does. Even using the no border functionality of KWin will give a sub-optimal result as you won't have round borders. It would be impossible to visually distinguish a maximized from a not maximized window.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eApart from that: yes, 3rd-party code could use our functionality (e.g. we certainly should get GTK to use our superior solutions on Plasma), but I consider it unlikely that this would happen. And yes we can turn of windows on an application basis, except for anything Electron based as that is not ICCCM compliant and broken beyond repair on X11.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eEnsures that all windows retain consistent shadows?\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003efor applications using our functionality we can guarantee that. For 3rd party applications using CSD we have no control about it, just like now.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThat's what I thought, and it's why I asked about shadows earlier. Right now, GTK apps that use CSDs don't have window shadows, and it looks bad. We get a neverending stream of complaints about this.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eIf we accept your proposal and move 3rd-party apps to use CSDs, I think that like GNOME apps, they won't use our functionality (as you said, "I consider it unlikely that this would happen") and we'll get a substantial visual regression for nearly all of them. Right now, all of them get a nice pretty KWin-generated SSD shadow. We don't want to lose that. If they don't request titlebars, we will even have a functional regression too! That's not acceptable.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWith your proposal, is there a way to ensure that all 3rd-party apps that currently have KWin-generated titlebars and shadows don't lose them?\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143719\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_641\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/p7lvqxswnnfzdlvrtsxg\/PHID-FILE-3xqamojrjoupplpxc5va\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143719\" id=\"143719\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_640\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003egraesslin\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143719\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_639\"\u003eMay 22 2018, 8:01 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_637\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_638\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_197\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eGTK apps that use CSDs don't have window shadows, and it looks bad. We get a neverending stream of complaints about this.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThis is due to the fact how shadows are implemented in GTK. GTK just makes the window larger and has a private protocol with mutter on where the shadow is. KWin doesn't know anything about that. If you enable the shadow in GTK windows would snap against the rather large shadow, quick tiling would be broken, thumbnails in task bar, resizing, maximizing, etc.. I reported these issues against GTK, but unfortunately they were not addressed. You can see these issues in: \u003ca href=\"https:\/\/bugzilla.gnome.org\/show_bug.cgi?id=729721\" class=\"remarkup-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer\"\u003ehttps:\/\/bugzilla.gnome.org\/show_bug.cgi?id=729721\u003c\/a\u003e and all the dependent bug reports.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eWe get a neverending stream of complaints about this.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eSo do I, if we would enable shadows. You don't want to know how many bug reports and complaints I got about Firefox starting to use CSD. It's always two sides and interestingly the reports go to KWin.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eRight now, all of them get a nice pretty KWin-generated SSD shadow.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eNo, that is not the case. GTK headerbar applications such as gedit are CSD and don't get an SSD and also no shadow. On Wayland btw. the windows neither have CSD nor SSD, because GTK implemented the protocol incorrectly and doesn't patch.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eWith your proposal, is there a way to ensure that all 3rd-party apps that currently have KWin-generated titlebars and shadows don't lose them?\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003esure, my proposal doesn't change anything. It's all opt-in.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eNow I suggest you split this thing you want to do into two parts: GTK and not-GTK. These are different issues which need different solutions. Concerning GTK people need to talk to GTK. I cannot because I am seen as the idiot who is against CSD (that's the summary I got from a high profile GTK developer on IRC why he ignored my bug reports). The thing is quite simple: GTK should not add shadows by default on platforms which don't support their property. We cannot add support for their property as we a) don't implement non-standard properties, b) KWin\/X11 is feature frozen and most important c) my estimate for supporting this is about half a year of development effort with an extremely high risk on breakage. In short KWin assumes everywhere that the visual size and window size matches. So everywhere where a geometry or a position is used we would need to manually check whether the usage is for positioning (shadows excluded) or visual (shadows included). Just finding all those places is a month long effort in a code base of 160 kSloc.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eIf we get GTK to not being broken from a window manager perspective than we can start to look into getting support for our shadow in. Currently they would probably block it, because they have a solution. If they would get the idea that their solution works for Mutter but not on other window managers, there is a chance that they would be open to change it. And if not we could still do interesting tricks to get our shadow system in. We would "just" need a plugin to pass shadows to our way of handling shadows.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAnyway I would hope that the VDG has a better standing talking to GNOME designers about these issues. Maybe that would help to get the technical side to move a bit and be open about changes. I have tried a lot. I talked to GTK devs, explained them why we cannot support them. The best reply I got was that the high profile person I mentioned before is their boss, so they cannot do anything.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThe situation sucks, I don't want to have anything to do with it, I got burnt from that, keep away from any discussions on standardization where GTK people are around, my pulse starts to go up as if I'm doing sports if I have to discuss about it. So for me a really hard situation which actually affects me quite a lot. The fact that I get personal blame for GTK apps looking bad on Plasma doesn't make it better.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143721\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_650\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143721\" id=\"143721\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_649\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143721\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_648\"\u003eMay 22 2018, 8:11 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_646\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_647\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_198\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eI'm quite familiar with the technical details of the CSD issues in GTK3 apps drawn by KWin. That's \u003cstrong\u003eexactly\u003c\/strong\u003e why I want to tease out all the potential consequences of your proposal.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eLet me get specific: imagine we implement your proposal and turn it on for Telegram (Electron) or Blender (custom OpenGL UI). Am I correct that this would result in windows with no side borders but also no shadows or titlebar unless the apps are patched to either specifically request these window decorations from KWin or draw them themselves?\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143739\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_659\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jbfsbvbimq2loryxnupm\/PHID-FILE-c6wgaicqxp3t5tckrqym\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/zzag\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143739\" id=\"143739\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_658\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/zzag\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003ezzag\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143739\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_657\"\u003eMay 22 2018, 9:19 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_655\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_656\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_199\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143721\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_108\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143721\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_109\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@ngraham\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003e... Telegram (Electron) ...\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eJust to correct: Telegram Desktop client is a Qt app (source code is available on GitHub). Some examples of Electron based apps, which are quite popular: Visual Studio Code (Visual Studio Code Insider), Atom, Skype for Linux, etc.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143740\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_668\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143740\" id=\"143740\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_667\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143740\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_666\"\u003eMay 22 2018, 9:22 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_664\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_665\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_200\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eAh right, my bad. Let me rephrase:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eImagine we implement your proposal and turn it on for Skype for Linux (Electron) or Blender (custom OpenGL UI). Am I correct that this would result in windows with no side borders but also no shadows or titlebars unless the apps are patched to either specifically request these window decorations from KWin or draw them themselves?\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143754\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_677\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/p7lvqxswnnfzdlvrtsxg\/PHID-FILE-3xqamojrjoupplpxc5va\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143754\" id=\"143754\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_676\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003egraesslin\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143754\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_675\"\u003eMay 23 2018, 4:32 AM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_673\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_674\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_201\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eSorry but I don't think you understood my proposal. My proposal requires changes in application - I mentioned kirigami as that is under our control. If we cannot change the code we need to look for a different solution. What I wrote is divide and conquer: find the correct solution for each class if application. The default for all applications would be no change. It's opt in. So no application would lose borders or shadows. As a fallback if applications cannot be patched, we can use window specific rules to enforce no side borders. This would work for everything except Elektron as Elektron is not icccm compliant.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143755\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_687\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143755\" id=\"143755\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_686\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003eEdited\u003cspan class=\"visual-only\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e \u00b7 \u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143755\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_685\"\u003eMay 23 2018, 5:06 AM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_683\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_684\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_202\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143754\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_110\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143754\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_111\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@graesslin\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eSorry but I don't think you understood my proposal. My proposal requires changes in application - I mentioned kirigami as that is under our control. If we cannot change the code we need to look for a different solution. What I wrote is divide and conquer: find the correct solution for each class if application. The default for all applications would be no change. It's opt in. So no application would lose borders or shadows. As a fallback if applications cannot be patched, we can use window specific rules to enforce no side borders. This would work for everything except Elektron as Elektron is not icccm compliant.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eActually, I think I have understood it: there would be no visual change without app code changes or local overrides via window rules. In our apps\/frameworks, we make code changes, and for 3rd party apps, we rely on window rules since as you mentioned earlier (and with which I agree), code changes in most 3rd party apps are in practice not going to happen. Questions:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eIf we move 3rd-party apps to using CSDs per your proposal, Can the proposed window rules force a shadow and titlebars for them, in addition to forcing no borders?\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eCould we make a blanket rule for all 3rd-party apps to remove borders but force shadows and titlebars, or would we have to do it individually?\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eAre the window rules robust enough to never break? It would be a shame if this approach caused 3rd-party apps to periodically lose their shadows and titlebars if they changed their window names or classes or something.\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eAm I correct in assuming that we still would not get rounded bottom corners for 3rd-party apps using window rules that force the \u003cspan class=\"remarkup-nav-sequence\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-shade phui-tag-grey phui-tag-shade \"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core \"\u003eNo Borders\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e setting with your proposal?\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003e...But with code changes to Kirigami\/Breeze\/something else\/etc., we \u003cem\u003ewould\u003c\/em\u003e be able to get rounded bottom corners for KDE apps that have no KWin-drawn borders, right?\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eIs there really no way to make any of this work with electron apps? Right now they do respond to KWin's border size setting, so I feel like I'm missing something.\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143890\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_696\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/p7lvqxswnnfzdlvrtsxg\/PHID-FILE-3xqamojrjoupplpxc5va\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143890\" id=\"143890\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_695\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003egraesslin\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143890\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_694\"\u003eMay 23 2018, 4:00 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_692\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_693\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_203\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eIf we move 3rd-party apps to using CSDs per your proposal, Can the proposed window rules force a shadow and titlebars for them, in addition to forcing no borders?\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eIf an application uses CSD, they don't get a decoration by KWin and thus also no title bar or shadow. That is the idea behind CSD.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eCould we make a blanket rule for all 3rd-party apps to remove borders but force shadows and titlebars, or would we have to do it individually?\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThere is no blanket detect 3rd party, so this needs to be case by case\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eAm I correct in assuming that we still would not get rounded bottom corners for 3rd-party apps using window rules that force the No Borders setting with your proposal?\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThis is correct. Rounded borders cannot be done by the window manager as explained before.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003e...But with code changes to Kirigami\/Breeze\/something else\/etc., we would be able to get rounded bottom corners for KDE apps that have no KWin-drawn borders, right?\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eIf Kirigami implements rounded corners, it would have rounded corners.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eIs there really no way to make any of this work with electron apps? Right now they do respond to KWin's border size setting, so I feel like I'm missing something.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWindow rules don't work for electron apps as they are not ICCCM compliant. Electron changes the WM_CLASS after mapping. As you can see in \u003ca href=\"https:\/\/tronche.com\/gui\/x\/icccm\/sec-4.html#s-4.1.2.5\" class=\"remarkup-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer\"\u003ehttps:\/\/tronche.com\/gui\/x\/icccm\/sec-4.html#s-4.1.2.5\u003c\/a\u003e this is not allowed and KWin correctly does not handle updates to the WM_CLASS. As rule matching is mostly based on this property rules don't work. Of course electron could fix this as it is a highly annoying problem as it creates many invalid bugreports in KWin.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143891\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_705\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143891\" id=\"143891\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_704\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143891\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_703\"\u003eMay 23 2018, 4:05 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_701\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_702\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_204\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143890\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_112\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143890\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_113\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@graesslin\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eIf we move 3rd-party apps to using CSDs per your proposal, Can the proposed window rules force a shadow and titlebars for them, in addition to forcing no borders?\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eIf an application uses CSD, they don't get a decoration by KWin and thus also no title bar or shadow. That is the idea behind CSD.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eSo we \u003cstrong\u003ecan\u003c\/strong\u003e or \u003cstrong\u003ecannot\u003c\/strong\u003e use KWin window rules to force CSD windows to have SSD shadows and titlebars?\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143993\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_714\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/p7lvqxswnnfzdlvrtsxg\/PHID-FILE-3xqamojrjoupplpxc5va\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143993\" id=\"143993\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_713\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003egraesslin\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143993\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_712\"\u003eMay 23 2018, 4:48 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_710\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_711\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_205\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143891\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_115\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143891\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_116\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@ngraham\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#143890\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_114\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#143890\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_117\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@graesslin\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eIf we move 3rd-party apps to using CSDs per your proposal, Can the proposed window rules force a shadow and titlebars for them, in addition to forcing no borders?\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eIf an application uses CSD, they don't get a decoration by KWin and thus also no title bar or shadow. That is the idea behind CSD.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eSo we \u003cstrong\u003ecan\u003c\/strong\u003e or \u003cstrong\u003ecannot\u003c\/strong\u003e use KWin window rules to force CSD windows to have SSD shadows and titlebars?\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eA window can either be client side deocrated or server side decorated. If it's client side decorated it does not get any decoration from the window manager. So no titlebar, no shadows, no resize handles, nothing. If you want to control the shadow or the titlebar you cannot opt for client side.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-143994\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_723\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/p7lvqxswnnfzdlvrtsxg\/PHID-FILE-3xqamojrjoupplpxc5va\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"143994\" id=\"143994\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_722\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003egraesslin\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#143994\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_721\"\u003eMay 23 2018, 4:48 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_719\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_720\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_206\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eAn example for how my proposal could look like: \u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup-embed-layout-left\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/2tjyqqryjsxd7morfab3\/PHID-FILE-rxwzbvipc2twrkwqaafk\/image.png\" class=\"phabricator-remarkup-embed-image\" data-sigil=\"lightboxable\" data-meta=\"0_118\"\u003e\u003cimg src=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/oyw2tzzwjzvmkz47tz6j\/PHID-FILE-4m5wgzqouvtyaw26bpiq\/preview-image.png\" width=\"220\" height=\"169.92657856094\" \/\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-144015\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_732\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"144015\" id=\"144015\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_731\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#144015\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_730\"\u003eMay 23 2018, 4:51 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_728\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_729\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_207\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eOK, so if I understand you correctly, then if we move to client-side-decorated windows for 3rd party apps that currently do not implement their own titlebars and shadows, then they will have no titlebars and shadows. Correct?\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-144274\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_741\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/p7lvqxswnnfzdlvrtsxg\/PHID-FILE-3xqamojrjoupplpxc5va\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"144274\" id=\"144274\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_740\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003egraesslin\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#144274\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_739\"\u003eMay 23 2018, 5:46 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_737\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_738\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_208\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#144015\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_119\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#144015\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_120\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@ngraham\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eOK, so if I understand you correctly, then if we move to client-side-decorated windows for 3rd party apps that currently do not implement their own titlebars and shadows, then they will have no titlebars and shadows. Correct?\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThey will not have KWin provided titlebars and KWin provided shadows. Whether they have titlebars and shadows depends on how the application implements it.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-144277\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_750\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"144277\" id=\"144277\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_749\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#144277\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_748\"\u003eMay 23 2018, 7:02 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_746\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_747\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_209\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eThank you for clarifying and humoring my stupid-sounding questions as I try to understand all the details!\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI'm afraid your proposal will not suffice.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWe don't want to lose KWin-generated SSD shadows and titlebars in 3rd-party apps to achieve the original goal of removing the SSD border. Asking all 3rd-party apps\/app toolkits to draw their own window decorations is not reasonable. We both know that 99% of them won't do it, and it's really not reasonable to even ask them in the first place, because from their perspective, KWin's SSDs are working just fine. If we accept your proposal, we won't be able to achieve borderless windows for 3rd-party apps without making them look as bad as GTK3 headerbar apps do now and also introducing the \u003cem\u003efunctional\u003c\/em\u003e regression that they'll lack a titlebar. This would not only defeat the entire point of the endeavor, and introduce regressions, but it would also expose you to even more of the kind of blood-pressure-spiking criticism that you already get over GTK headerbar windows.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-144278\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_759\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"144278\" id=\"144278\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_758\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#144278\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_757\"\u003eMay 23 2018, 7:03 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_755\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_756\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_210\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eLet's back up a bit here. What we want is to simply remove the SSD window borders without also losing the desirable SSD titlebars and shadows. We have a pre-existing method to do that: change the "Border Size" default value. We know that this works because it's a user-facing setting in the Window Decoration KCM and we can easily test it out. Other than the round bottom corner issue--which you've helped me to see as a separate issue that we can handle in our own GUI toolkits--we know that it doesn't cause visual regressions because many of us already use "No borders" on our personal machines (in fact, most apps actually look better IMO). I would like to return to this option. Martin, do you have any still-unaddressed technical objections to us changing the default value of this user-facing setting?\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-144572\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_768\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/oqkv7gy4f6rymuqc6tlh\/PHID-FILE-zgrobthdboyzh6vkrw6j\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/davidedmundson\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"144572\" id=\"144572\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-user-plus phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_767\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/davidedmundson\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003edavidedmundson\u003c\/a\u003e added a subscriber: \u003ca href=\"\/p\/davidedmundson\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_211\"\u003edavidedmundson\u003c\/a\u003e.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#144572\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_766\"\u003eMay 25 2018, 12:21 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_764\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_765\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_212\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eI've got a few confusions from this thread.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e*IF* windows borders are an accessibility thing, then it doesn't meet requirements to have any solution where applications can turn them off at will. \u003cbr \/\u003e\nIt's solvable with some sort of config option which sets the border to size to be a preference or an override, but then you get into overly complex code and complex UI and I don't think it's solving anything.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAlso we need a unified VDG response on "do you want rounded corners". I have seen both sentiments. It wouldn't be the first time devs have done something complex to accomodate something that wasn't actually wanted in the first place.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-144584\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_777\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"144584\" id=\"144584\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_776\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#144584\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_775\"\u003eMay 25 2018, 1:47 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_773\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_774\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_213\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eThanks for the comments, David.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI believe I have adequately refuted the assertion that KWIN's SSD borders are an accessibility feature \u003ca href=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/T8707#143203\" class=\"remarkup-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer\"\u003ehere\u003c\/a\u003e. Turning them off results in no functional change, only a visual one, so VDG believes this to be more of a visual design matter than a technical one. If any further clarification is necessary, I will be happy to address further points.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThe VDG position on the matter is that we would prefer rounded bottom corners if possible. However most of us are willing to accept their loss in exchange for no more SSD window borders, if that's the trade-off we have to make. But if it's possible to have both without excessive effort, we'd be thrilled. Martin mentioned some intriguing avenues in our widget toolkits that may be able to get us rounded bottom corners at least for our own apps and those using our frameworks, which would be better than nothing.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-144585\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_786\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/oqkv7gy4f6rymuqc6tlh\/PHID-FILE-zgrobthdboyzh6vkrw6j\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/davidedmundson\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"144585\" id=\"144585\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_785\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/davidedmundson\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003edavidedmundson\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#144585\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_784\"\u003eMay 25 2018, 2:04 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_782\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_783\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_214\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eTurning them off results in no functional change\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eIt does compared to setting them to oversized, the hit area is clearly smaller.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eBut you probably dont' want to argue that, saying it's accessibility is all the more reason to just toggle a default rather than whatever scheme of having apps override things.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-144586\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_795\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"144586\" id=\"144586\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_794\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#144586\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_793\"\u003eMay 25 2018, 2:09 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_791\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_792\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_215\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eRight, and in fact, my proposal isn't to actually \u003cem\u003eremove\u003c\/em\u003e any features, just to change the default border size from \u003cspan class=\"remarkup-nav-sequence\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-shade phui-tag-grey phui-tag-shade \"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core \"\u003eNormal\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e to \u003cspan class=\"remarkup-nav-sequence\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-shade phui-tag-grey phui-tag-shade \"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core \"\u003eNo Borders\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e, which has no functional change. With my proposal, people who want \u003cspan class=\"remarkup-nav-sequence\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-shade phui-tag-grey phui-tag-shade \"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core \"\u003eOversized\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e borders for whatever reason can still get them. It's really very non-invasive, IMHO...\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-144588\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_804\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/st5zwikq37izodvzjg7a\/PHID-FILE-3hykxhpwhd5x656lkxhe\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/romangg\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"144588\" id=\"144588\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-user-plus phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_803\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/romangg\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003eromangg\u003c\/a\u003e added a subscriber: \u003ca href=\"\/p\/romangg\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_216\"\u003eromangg\u003c\/a\u003e.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#144588\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_802\"\u003eMay 25 2018, 4:04 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_800\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_801\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_217\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eYea, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_121\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@ngraham\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e don't shoot yourself in the foot. ;) Assuming the border size is an accessibility feature (which it is if you compare tiny to oversized), the system should determine the default and how\/where to change it and not some random class of applications (GTK, Electron etc).\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI'm quite flabbergasted that this discussion became so complex quickly. Let's unravel:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThe \u003cem\u003ecentral goal\u003c\/em\u003e of this task was to not show per default the opaque left-right-bottom parts of SSD borders. This could be easily done by changing the default from \u003cspan class=\"remarkup-nav-sequence\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-shade phui-tag-grey phui-tag-shade \"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core \"\u003eNormal\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e to \u003cspan class=\"remarkup-nav-sequence\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-shade phui-tag-grey phui-tag-shade \"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core \"\u003eNo Borders\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e and would mean:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eKWin is still master of the window decorations via SSD.\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eWindows can still be resized in large enough border areas via the "virtual borders".\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eUsers with disabilities can change the setting to larger borders with no problem from System Settings.\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eNo rounded bottom corners.\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eBut if we still want to have \u003cem\u003erounded bottom corners\u003c\/em\u003e, we would need to communicate to the client to paint its bottom corners with some alpha. This would increase the complexity in comparison to just changing the border size default by an order of magnitude  in any case. Of which I see three:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003col class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eClients do not only paint an alpha to its bottom corners, but also the shadows around the window and the window top bar. I.e. this would mean full CSD.\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eLike in 1., but the compositor paints above the client decoration its window top bar. This is from what I understood Martin's proposal a).\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eClients only paint an alpha to their surface bottom corners, but not any additional shadows and top bar, which are still provided as SSD. This is some kind of bastard between CSD and SSD and an API to communicate this to the client would be very specific about alpha rounded corners. Basically this is Martin's solution b) whereas he wants to reuse the shadow protocol for that.\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ol\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAll of these proposals have several advantages and disadvantages, but in any case not all clients would directly support it introducing some inconsistency in looks and we would move away somewhat from SSD. And I thought in the past we don't want to do this.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eBut besides all of that if the VDG foremost wants to achieve the \u003cem\u003ecentral goal\u003c\/em\u003e and is ok with \u003cem\u003enot\u003c\/em\u003e rounded bottom corners, this can be done easily by changing the border size default value. So does she want that? If yes, I propose us devs to do exactly as she wish and not question her authority on pure Ui\/Ux decisions, because having \u003cspan class=\"remarkup-nav-sequence\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-shade phui-tag-grey phui-tag-shade \"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core \"\u003eNo Borders\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e as default (with not rounded bottom corners) is exactly this.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eBut if the VDG does not want to lose rounded bottom corners for the default workspace with Breeze, we have to look at the three specific solutions listed above and contemplate on what it would mean for us to go more into the direction of CSD. I would personally go with the third solution, because it's the least CSD and not supporting clients would still have fine shadows and top window bars, just no rounded bottom corners.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-144591\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_813\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"144591\" id=\"144591\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_812\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#144591\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_811\"\u003eMay 25 2018, 4:31 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_809\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_810\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_218\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#144588\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_122\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#144588\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/romangg\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_127\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@romangg\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eI'm quite flabbergasted that this discussion became so complex quickly. Let's unravel:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThe \u003cem\u003ecentral goal\u003c\/em\u003e of this task was to not show per default the opaque left-right-bottom parts of SSD borders. This could be easily done by changing the default from \u003cspan class=\"remarkup-nav-sequence\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-shade phui-tag-grey phui-tag-shade \"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core \"\u003eNormal\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e to \u003cspan class=\"remarkup-nav-sequence\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-shade phui-tag-grey phui-tag-shade \"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core \"\u003eNo Borders\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e and would mean:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eKWin is still master of the window decorations via SSD.\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eWindows can still be resized in large enough border areas via the "virtual borders".\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eUsers with disabilities can change the setting to larger borders with no problem from System Settings.\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003eNo rounded bottom corners.\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eRight, and that's exactly why it's what I proposed. I had really hoped to avoid getting into the weeds with a complicated technical approach because I had a feeling that the discussion would turn into, well, what it turned into.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#144588\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_123\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#144588\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/romangg\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_126\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@romangg\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eBut besides all of that if the VDG foremost wants to achieve the \u003cem\u003ecentral goal\u003c\/em\u003e and is ok with \u003cem\u003enot\u003c\/em\u003e rounded bottom corners, this can be done easily by changing the border size default value. So does she want that? If yes, I propose us devs to do exactly as she wish and not question her authority on pure Ui\/Ux decisions, because having \u003cspan class=\"remarkup-nav-sequence\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-shade phui-tag-grey phui-tag-shade \"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core \"\u003eNo Borders\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e as default (with not rounded bottom corners) is exactly this.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThanks for the vote of confidence, Roman.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI think it's time for other \u003ca href=\"\/tag\/vdg\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-shade phui-tag-blue phui-tag-shade phui-tag-icon-view \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_125\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core \"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-users\" data-meta=\"0_124\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eVDG\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e people to speak up:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003ebecause keeping the rounded bottom corners in conjunction with no borders is too technically challenging and fraught with pitfalls, \u003cstrong\u003eare we okay with losing the rounded bottom corners temporarily or permanently, or should we abandon this entire goal?\u003c\/strong\u003e\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-144592\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_822\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/eqxyyoiadtrwvx7uztvw\/PHID-FILE-7a2gsziwfgxuzwm7p56z\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/Zren\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"144592\" id=\"144592\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-user-plus phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_821\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/Zren\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003eZren\u003c\/a\u003e added a subscriber: \u003ca href=\"\/p\/Zren\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_219\"\u003eZren\u003c\/a\u003e.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#144592\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_820\"\u003eMay 25 2018, 4:49 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_818\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_819\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_220\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eWould it be possible to draw rounded corners with the compositor as a Desktop Effect? All we need to do is translate a the shadow pixels ontop of the the client rect. Maybe making a few pixels semi transparent.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup-embed-layout-left\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/toxlche2yxuo4ssevzc5\/PHID-FILE-666voa6kp2pqwqfpdjyc\/2018-05-25_12-33-04.png\" class=\"phabricator-remarkup-embed-image\" data-sigil=\"lightboxable\" data-meta=\"0_128\"\u003e\u003cimg src=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/j2wcodytl4tbjadomflb\/PHID-FILE-acfanxcsaz24267x7ctk\/preview-2018-05-25_12-33-04.png\" width=\"220\" height=\"134.95798319328\" \/\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup-embed-layout-left\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/ygzoi7qwmylfjyex42ad\/PHID-FILE-i2ovjh2iprkaf5kraj6g\/2018-05-25_12-33-36.png\" class=\"phabricator-remarkup-embed-image\" data-sigil=\"lightboxable\" data-meta=\"0_129\"\u003e\u003cimg src=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/deye4t6woujewczmzpjs\/PHID-FILE-aq3vajnnm6lbqh46xmio\/preview-2018-05-25_12-33-36.png\" width=\"220\" height=\"158.69488536155\" \/\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eWhich can be achieved by shifting the shadows by 1px.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup-embed-layout-left\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/7ofyvl2kqwmtacknz7bh\/PHID-FILE-v5p7twh7xvxqk3ytyhm7\/2018-05-25_12-26-31.png\" class=\"phabricator-remarkup-embed-image\" data-sigil=\"lightboxable\" data-meta=\"0_130\"\u003e\u003cimg src=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/h7gysdvft3zc2pirljuc\/PHID-FILE-h2o3r3mty7gzguntot2f\/preview-2018-05-25_12-26-31.png\" width=\"220\" height=\"191.21495327103\" \/\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup-embed-layout-left\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/4zsggtaw5x4jryw425kj\/PHID-FILE-naqycojegrag3nuyuh3u\/2018-05-25_12-24-59.png\" class=\"phabricator-remarkup-embed-image\" data-sigil=\"lightboxable\" data-meta=\"0_131\"\u003e\u003cimg src=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/p76wcevbgy26s6hvios3\/PHID-FILE-in5extd7dnthgvekzmo6\/preview-2018-05-25_12-24-59.png\" width=\"220\" height=\"163.37391304348\" \/\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThe bottom right pixel is completely draw over, but these 4 pixels could be drawn at 35% opacity to give it a "gradient" effect.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup-embed-layout-left\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/ur6fd3u7kova3zmpapjf\/PHID-FILE-ei5dqq6se5hmeeklo27y\/2018-05-25_12-36-56.png\" class=\"phabricator-remarkup-embed-image\" data-sigil=\"lightboxable\" data-meta=\"0_132\"\u003e\u003cimg src=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/lzovzykjicz4ujaqaoda\/PHID-FILE-6ulpjkv6nczadgx7mkba\/preview-2018-05-25_12-36-56.png\" width=\"220\" height=\"173.61169102296\" \/\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-144595\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_831\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jbfsbvbimq2loryxnupm\/PHID-FILE-c6wgaicqxp3t5tckrqym\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/zzag\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"144595\" id=\"144595\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_830\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/zzag\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003ezzag\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#144595\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_829\"\u003eMay 25 2018, 5:10 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_827\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_828\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_221\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eAll we need to do is translate a the shadow pixels ontop of the the client rect\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThat would complicate shadow rendering code too much. Also, that would look like a hack, e.g. "What shadows and rounding of corners have in common?".\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-144607\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_840\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jbfsbvbimq2loryxnupm\/PHID-FILE-c6wgaicqxp3t5tckrqym\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/zzag\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"144607\" id=\"144607\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_839\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/zzag\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003ezzag\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#144607\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_838\"\u003eMay 25 2018, 5:19 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_836\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_837\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_222\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#144592\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_134\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#144592\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/Zren\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_135\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@Zren\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup-embed-layout-left\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/ur6fd3u7kova3zmpapjf\/PHID-FILE-ei5dqq6se5hmeeklo27y\/2018-05-25_12-36-56.png\" class=\"phabricator-remarkup-embed-image\" data-sigil=\"lightboxable\" data-meta=\"0_133\"\u003e\u003cimg src=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/lzovzykjicz4ujaqaoda\/PHID-FILE-6ulpjkv6nczadgx7mkba\/preview-2018-05-25_12-36-56.png\" width=\"220\" height=\"173.61169102296\" \/\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAlso, how would it solve problems with continuity? And would it even work for light shadows?\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-144608\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_849\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/eqxyyoiadtrwvx7uztvw\/PHID-FILE-7a2gsziwfgxuzwm7p56z\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/Zren\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"144608\" id=\"144608\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_848\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/Zren\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003eZren\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#144608\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_847\"\u003eMay 25 2018, 5:49 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_845\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_846\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_223\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eThat would complicate shadow rendering code too much.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eIt's a postprocessing compositor effect, sorta like wobbly windows squishes the shadow layer (though I haven't written a desktop effect code so maybe you're right here). Last time I tried wayland, the shadows in wobbly windows didn't "wobble" so I assume they're 2 different layers.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAssuming the client and shadow are independent layers, instead of "drawing the shadow on top" of the client, we'd be instead "masking" the client layer by a few pixels, making a few transparent. Even if you don't draw shadows it would be round. If you do draw shadows, the shadow layer would need to draw underneath those transparent pixels though, so we'd need to "translate the shadow pixels" as I mentioned above.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cvideo controls=\"controls\" preload=\"auto\" class=\"phabricator-media\"\u003e\u003csource src=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/x34gzqmcumktfyjknm6g\/PHID-FILE-g7gqg27zfrn2u5zxfo55\/screen-2018-05-25_13.35.36.mp4\" \/\u003e\u003c\/video\u003e\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-144633\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_858\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jbfsbvbimq2loryxnupm\/PHID-FILE-c6wgaicqxp3t5tckrqym\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/zzag\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"144633\" id=\"144633\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_857\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/zzag\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003ezzag\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#144633\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_856\"\u003eMay 25 2018, 6:22 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_854\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_855\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_224\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#144608\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_136\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#144608\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/Zren\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_137\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@Zren\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eIt's a postprocessing compositor effect, sorta like wobbly windows squishes the shadow layer (though I haven't written a desktop effect code so maybe you're right here). Last time I tried wayland, the shadows in wobbly windows didn't "wobble" so I assume they're 2 different layers.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAs far as I remember, the OpenGL scene plugin draws windows as follows:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003edraw shadow\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003edraw decoration\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003edraw content\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003edraw previous content(i.e. cross fading)\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eDepending on some conditions, this order should be somehow tweaked, which FWIW would break one critical promise(IMHO) that KDecoration gives \u003ca href=\"https:\/\/github.com\/KDE\/kdecoration\/blob\/master\/src\/decorationshadow.h#L87\" class=\"remarkup-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer\"\u003ehttps:\/\/github.com\/KDE\/kdecoration\/blob\/master\/src\/decorationshadow.h#L87\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eEven if it's possible to tweak the draw order, would it work for arbitrary radii?\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eAssuming the client and shadow are independent layers, instead of "drawing the shadow on top" of the client, we'd be instead "masking" the client layer by a few pixels, making a few transparent. Even if you don't draw shadows it would be round. If you do draw shadows,\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003ethe shadow layer would need to draw underneath those transparent pixels though, so we'd need to "translate the shadow pixels" as I mentioned above.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eNot really, Breeze just "rounds shadow corners" so they perfectly fit bottom corners. ;-)\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-144679\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_867\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"144679\" id=\"144679\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_866\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#144679\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_865\"\u003eMay 26 2018, 4:37 AM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_863\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_864\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_225\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eNow that's thinking outside the box! Is doing this via an effect actually going to be possible? If so, that might be the best of both worlds, because we could have it on by default, but allow it to be turned off by people who don't like rounded bottom corners or who think that the full window area should never be clipped.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-145633\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_876\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/p7lvqxswnnfzdlvrtsxg\/PHID-FILE-3xqamojrjoupplpxc5va\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"145633\" id=\"145633\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_875\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003egraesslin\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#145633\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_874\"\u003eJun 1 2018, 3:42 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_872\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_873\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_226\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eWe are not going to clip anything away from the windows. Sorry, but we cannot do that. It's in IMHO absolutely evil to clip away window content. If you want round borders follow the approach I outlined.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eOtherwise I'm still against switching defaults. Let me explain why: I think it should not be the VDG how comes up with a technical solution. It should be the domain expert to come up with a technical solution for the requirements you have. I don't think that the technical solution you picked fulfills the requirements you have. But somehow you want to stick to the substandard solution as it's what you came up with.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eIn future please ask the experts before finding the technical solution.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-145634\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_885\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"145634\" id=\"145634\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_884\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#145634\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_883\"\u003eJun 1 2018, 3:45 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_881\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_882\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_227\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eAssuming we can live without rounded bottom corners, all we want to do here is change a user-facing default. That isn't a technical solution. It's a visual tweak that is absolutely under the purview of the VDG.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-145637\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_894\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/rqco73wohxakrcsm2m52\/PHID-FILE-zyhktif6eo2vmjvtvg5h\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"145637\" id=\"145637\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_893\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003eabetts\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#145637\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_892\"\u003eJun 1 2018, 3:56 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_890\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_891\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_228\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eI appreciate the discussion and insight. We won't be able to have rounded borders at this time, but we can work on them in the future. Instead, we should still proceed with no borders.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-145659\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_903\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/p7lvqxswnnfzdlvrtsxg\/PHID-FILE-3xqamojrjoupplpxc5va\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"145659\" id=\"145659\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_902\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003egraesslin\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#145659\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_901\"\u003eJun 1 2018, 7:42 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_899\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_900\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_229\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#145634\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_138\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#145634\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_139\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@ngraham\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eAssuming we can live without rounded bottom corners, all we want to do here is change a user-facing default. That isn't a technical solution. It's a visual tweak that is absolutely under the purview of the VDG.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eYou had a problem and you had requirements. You did not check with the experts on how to achieve your requirements and instead came up with an own solution. Whether we call that user-facing default or technical solution is just quick-quack. The thing is you didn't ask me on how to achieve this. And I'm quite disappointed that I as author of the code and maintainer was not consulted and that my requests for rethinking were met with what felt to me hostility.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI as maintainer of the component and author of the relevant code disapprove the change and think more work is required. You can decide for yourself which way to follow. Take a step back and work with the domain expert for a solution meting your requirements or change the user facing default.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-145660\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_912\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/rqco73wohxakrcsm2m52\/PHID-FILE-zyhktif6eo2vmjvtvg5h\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"145660\" id=\"145660\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_911\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/abetts\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003eabetts\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#145660\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_910\"\u003eJun 1 2018, 7:49 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_908\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_909\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_230\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#145659\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_141\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#145659\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/graesslin\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_142\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@graesslin\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#145634\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_140\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#145634\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_143\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@ngraham\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eAssuming we can live without rounded bottom corners, all we want to do here is change a user-facing default. That isn't a technical solution. It's a visual tweak that is absolutely under the purview of the VDG.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eYou had a problem and you had requirements. You did not check with the experts on how to achieve your requirements and instead came up with an own solution. Whether we call that user-facing default or technical solution is just quick-quack. The thing is you didn't ask me on how to achieve this. And I'm quite disappointed that I as author of the code and maintainer was not consulted and that my requests for rethinking were met with what felt to me hostility.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI as maintainer of the component and author of the relevant code disapprove the change and think more work is required. You can decide for yourself which way to follow. Take a step back and work with the domain expert for a solution meting your requirements or change the user facing default.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI think that's fair to say. Please be aware that in Open Source, even though you are the author of something, it doesn't belong to you. Once you release as GPL, it belong to no one. Therefore, people can work in it and decide to change it. You know better about this than I do because of your many years in the field. What you are feeling is that because this is something you are passionate about, not having consulted with you is not a good thing. I remind you, once again, that you have rejected our request to access Telegram or IRC and instead have asked people to email you first. This is not the ideal form of communication for most of us. The team proposes ideas in the Telegram channel and we determine if this is work that we should elevate into a ticket. Once that ticket is created, you are let know, but the background conversation was missing. I encourage you, one more time, to join Telgram, so that you don't feel left out and you can see your work evolve.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eYou know we can't decide unless you are onboard, but you generally resist any work on defaults and disapprove them continually. I feel that attitude needs to change if we want to make Plasma evolve. I don't think it's fair for you to say "because you don't do what I say, I don't approve." It is not the attitude, it is not the way.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMy request for you is to, again, join our telegram chat like the rest of the developers do, and participate. You will discover that your work is greatly appreciated and we seek for your advice before we make requests. We just ask that you make yourself more available.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-145661\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_922\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/gr6w4nr3osxs4ozq5kuq\/PHID-FILE-uro74n6zfduaeftdh6b5\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/hein\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"145661\" id=\"145661\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-user-plus phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_921\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/hein\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003ehein\u003c\/a\u003e added a subscriber: \u003ca href=\"\/p\/hein\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_231\"\u003ehein\u003c\/a\u003e.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003eEdited\u003cspan class=\"visual-only\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e \u00b7 \u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"#145661\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_920\"\u003eJun 1 2018, 7:55 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_918\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_919\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_232\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eMy to cents on a bunch of those things:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e(a) Personally I'd opt for 'No Borders' with no rounded bottom corners. I think this leads to the superior visual result with latest-gen apps (Kirigami, others). Rounding the bottom corners would actually look worse. This is not true for all apps yet, but I think the writing is on the wall that over time it will be. Like Martin I also think clipping the client area is unacceptable.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e(b) I think making \u003ca href=\"https:\/\/en.wikiquote.org\/wiki\/Argument_from_authority\" class=\"remarkup-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer\"\u003earguments from authority\u003c\/a\u003e is wasted breath. All it does is heat things up, and you're still left with having to discuss the actual topic anyway :)\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e(c) The VDG channel is officially an IRC channel, and it happens to be bridged to a Telegram group, but it's not necessary to use Telegram to participate there, just for the record to avoid some animosity on that.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-145663\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_932\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"145663\" id=\"145663\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_931\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003eEdited\u003cspan class=\"visual-only\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e \u00b7 \u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"#145663\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_930\"\u003eJun 1 2018, 8:00 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_928\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_929\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_233\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eMartin, I wanted to keep the focus on a change that was as small and non-technical as possible (a simple change of one default setting), because I had a feeling that if you became involved, you would try to turn a simple and achievable design change via defaults tweak into a complicated, error-prone, long-term project that required code changes to 3rd-party apps and that only you had the technical ability to undertake on the KWin side. And in fact that's exactly what happened.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAs a result, we spent a week debating the technical merits of your very complicated proposal--whose implementation and ramifications can only be fully understood by veteran KWin developers--only to reject it on the grounds that it wouldn't actually accomplish our original goal (no window borders) and would add a great deal of technical risk and the potential for visual regressions. This process frustrated you, me, and everyone else involved, and wasted a lot of our time that we could have used for more productive matters.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eTurning off the SSD window borders while accepting the loss of the rounded bottom corners is a very simple change that it introduces no change in behavior or functionality; it's entirely within the design field. Unless you want to join the VDG and communicate with the team using the tools that everyone else does, I would ask you to please not question our design goals and not to get in the way of visual changes that happen to involve KWin. It's not fair to the VDG, it's not fair to our users, and it wastes a huge amount of your valuable time that is much better spent making KWin an even better window manager than it already is.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-145664\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_941\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/34kjhz7y2xvch6zim5z2\/PHID-FILE-txxzw4dmfn4kyum4jbb3\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/Fuchs\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"145664\" id=\"145664\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_940\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/Fuchs\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003eFuchs\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#145664\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_939\"\u003eJun 1 2018, 8:55 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_937\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_938\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_234\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003ePersonally I'd be okay with no borders without rounded boarders by default, even though I'd consider it a UX setback to have a less visible resize area just for the sake of a more thin look. To me form follows function.\u003cbr \/\u003e\nPlus, personally I don't think we should switch defaults too often during a major release cycle, but rather decide something and then go with it for a while. This would lead to fewer inconsistencies where some areas are adapted to the new look and others are not, and give us a more polished look. (I am fully aware that we don't major release that often)\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eLast but not least, since the VDG made some requests on communication and reaction: please note that in the very beginning (!) I foresaw this happening and urged to poke Martin, which was discarded for, in my opinion, silly reasons  (you can easily e-mail people before you have a ticket, even if you dislike E-Mail as much as I do). And given that people seem to be frustrated from similar in the past, it was well known that this will happen. So basically people are now frustrated and complaining over something they knew would happen and were warned would happen, yet they did let it happen regardless. I think that might need some adjusting as well.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-145665\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_951\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/gr6w4nr3osxs4ozq5kuq\/PHID-FILE-uro74n6zfduaeftdh6b5\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/hein\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"145665\" id=\"145665\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_950\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/hein\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003ehein\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003eEdited\u003cspan class=\"visual-only\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e \u00b7 \u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"#145665\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_949\"\u003eJun 1 2018, 9:17 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_947\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_948\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_235\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eWriting emails to individuals to ask permission for opening tickets that end in "Thoughts on how we resolve this?" (an open invitation, not a pronouncement) is not how we work. It's very important that it doesn't *become* how we work, too.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eMaintainers in KDE have a very important organizational function: To enable the work of other people on a project and keep it viable for contributions by others. Quality control is exerted with that goal in mind (if the software becomes bad, it becomes harder to contribute to or unattractive for contributing to). It's therefore certainly important to involve them, and that a check-in with them happens before work goes in. I myself demand this in the projects I maintain. But it's not necessary to ask a maintainer before starting a discussion on something. It also doesn't work like "I'm the maintainer, therefore my opinion goes".\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eKDE is among a rare breed of open source communities that have successfully become multi-generational. I've been a maintainer of various things in KDE for over a decade now, and yet, the vast majority of things I maintain are projects previously started by others, Sometimes they had even multiple different maintainers before I took the seat. The same is true for KWin and its maintainership history. It's important that this continues, and that maintainers don't become too entrenched, and that maintainers understand an important part of their function is to enable and emancipate others to complement and even replace them.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThis ticket initially went totally fine. It started as a brainstorm, and the KWin maintainer started participating in the discussion. The ticket went off the rails when it devolved into arguments from authority and "leave technical stuff to the technical experts". Being a domain expert doesn't mean you don't have to explain yourself or humor discussion, because being a maintainer means your job is raising people up, not knocking them down.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-145672\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_960\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/34kjhz7y2xvch6zim5z2\/PHID-FILE-txxzw4dmfn4kyum4jbb3\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/Fuchs\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"145672\" id=\"145672\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_959\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/Fuchs\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003eFuchs\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#145672\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_958\"\u003eJun 1 2018, 9:21 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_956\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_957\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_236\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eIn an ideal world I'd agree with you. But if the changes can only be done by few people (or not at all), it would not hurt to safely check beforehand whether   a) it is possible  b)  someone with the needed knowledge and skill is willing to do it, because we can neither force people nor make things happen by magic, so that might safe some time and frustration. Not saying it should be the default for every minor change.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eOn the scope of what is acceptable behaviour and not I am not going to comment, because I think it would drift even further off-topic, sorry.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-145673\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_970\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"145673\" id=\"145673\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_969\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003eEdited\u003cspan class=\"visual-only\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e \u00b7 \u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"#145673\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_968\"\u003eJun 1 2018, 9:22 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_966\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_967\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_237\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class=\"remarkup-reply-block\"\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-head\"\u003eIn \u003ca href=\"\/T8707#145664\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_144\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eT8707#145664\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e, \u003ca href=\"\/p\/Fuchs\/\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-person \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_145\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-person\"\u003e@Fuchs\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e wrote:\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003cdiv class=\"remarkup-reply-body\"\u003e\u003cp\u003ePlus, personally I don't think we should switch defaults too often during a major release cycle, but rather decide something and then go with it for a while.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\n\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI don't think anyone is proposing we do that. The setting that we're planning to change hasn't been touched in years, and it's not like we plan to change it back 6 months from now.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eLast but not least, since the VDG made some requests on communication and reaction: please note that in the very beginning (!) I foresaw this happening and urged to poke Martin, which was discarded for, in my opinion, silly reasons\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/T8707#145663\" class=\"remarkup-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer\"\u003eI gave my reasons up here\u003c\/a\u003e. In retrospect, exactly what I predicted would happen actually happened: a discussion about a proposed design change with wide VDG backing got side-tracked into a combative argument about an unworkable technical proposal that introduced risk and didn't even meet the original design goals.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eIf we had planned to embark down a route that I thought required more complex changes to KWin's architecture, I would definitely have involved Martin sooner, because on that front he is definitely the expert. However visual tweaks that simply involve changing a default are not something that requires his expertise. In fact, one of the primary reasons why VDG exists is so developers who have a more technical mindset are freed from the burden of having to care about the look-and-feel of the platform. They can leave that up to VDG and focus on what they like doing best.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-145674\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_980\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/gr6w4nr3osxs4ozq5kuq\/PHID-FILE-uro74n6zfduaeftdh6b5\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/hein\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"145674\" id=\"145674\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_979\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/hein\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003ehein\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003eEdited\u003cspan class=\"visual-only\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e \u00b7 \u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"#145674\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_978\"\u003eJun 1 2018, 9:27 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_976\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_977\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_238\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003eBut if the changes can only be done by few people (or not at all), it would not hurt to safely check beforehand whether a) it is possible b) someone with the needed knowledge and skill is willing to do it, because we can neither force people nor make things happen by magic, so that might safe some time and frustration.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/blockquote\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eThis isn't actually how this ticket went. The original ticket illustrates a visual problem and ends with a "thoughts on how we can fix this?". The initial fix proposal afterwards was to change a settings default (which requires no technical skills beyond opening a text editor). The ideas that require code changes only some can do only arose within the ticket, and after the relevant participants were already on board. There was nothing to "check beforehand".\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eAnd even if their had been: It's totally fair game to generate and brainstorm ideas that have no manpower behind them. Sometimes that's how you attract that manpower in the first place. This is part of the mission statement of the VDG in particular, and if you look at the release announcements of the past few (very well-received) Plasma releases you can see numerous implementations based on VDG work because supplying programmer contributors with actionable work items leads to results.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eI kept quiet on this meta-quabble for the longest time - but when I see people getting chided, berated and patronized for trying to improve something, it's just really meh.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-145678\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_984\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-minor-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"145678\" id=\"145678\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-link phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_982\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a revision: \u003ca href=\"\/D13276\" class=\"phui-handle handle-status-closed\"\u003eD13276: Display "No Borders" by default\u003c\/a\u003e.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#145678\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_981\"\u003eJun 2 2018, 1:36 AM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-link phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_983\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e mentioned this in \u003ca href=\"\/D13277\" class=\"phui-handle handle-status-closed\"\u003eD13277: Turn off the extended resize handle\/black triangle when there are no borders\u003c\/a\u003e.\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-145681\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_993\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"145681\" id=\"145681\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_992\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#145681\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_991\"\u003eJun 2 2018, 2:45 AM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_989\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_990\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_239\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003ePatches submitted:\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cul class=\"remarkup-list\"\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003e[KWin] \u003ca href=\"\/D13276\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_146\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eD13276: Display "No Borders" by default\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003e[Breeze] \u003ca href=\"\/D13277\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_147\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eD13277: Turn off the extended resize handle\/black triangle when there are no borders\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003cli class=\"remarkup-list-item\"\u003e[Breeze] \u003ca href=\"\/D13278\" class=\"phui-tag-view phui-tag-type-object \" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_148\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core-closed\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-tag-core phui-tag-color-object\"\u003eD13278: Set default border value in all places\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\n\u003c\/ul\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-145683\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_997\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-minor-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/jp3luzknmku7uqxtuvo6\/PHID-FILE-xsdcutgttv2nstp3pfh2\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"145683\" id=\"145683\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-link phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_995\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a revision: \u003ca href=\"\/D13277\" class=\"phui-handle handle-status-closed\"\u003eD13277: Turn off the extended resize handle\/black triangle when there are no borders\u003c\/a\u003e.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#145683\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_994\"\u003eJun 2 2018, 5:56 AM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-link phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_996\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/ngraham\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003engraham\u003c\/a\u003e added a revision: \u003ca href=\"\/D13278\" class=\"phui-handle handle-status-closed\"\u003eD13278: Set default border value in all places\u003c\/a\u003e.\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-145707\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_1007\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-major-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/z7cnrvfsyjic3u45zed2\/PHID-FILE-7dqkmvwovjq4wppbdrom\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/hpereiradacosta\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-inner-content\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"145707\" id=\"145707\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon phui-timeline-title-with-menu\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-comment phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_1006\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/hpereiradacosta\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003ehpereiradacosta\u003c\/a\u003e added a comment.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003eEdited\u003cspan class=\"visual-only\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e \u00b7 \u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"#145707\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_1005\"\u003eJun 2 2018, 12:28 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phui-timeline-menu\" aria-haspopup=\"true\" aria-expanded=\"false\" data-sigil=\"phui-dropdown-menu\" data-meta=\"0_1003\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"aural-only\"\u003eComment Actions\u003c\/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-caret-down\" data-meta=\"0_1004\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-core-content\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"transaction-comment\" data-sigil=\"transaction-comment\" data-meta=\"0_240\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phabricator-remarkup\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eOn the argument: kirigami apps look ugly when there are window border. \u003cbr \/\u003e\nI don't see how changing the default window border fixes this. It just hides the issue. \u003cbr \/\u003e\nThe issue remains, and will be there as long as we offer the option of having window borders, disregarding what the defaults are. \u003cbr \/\u003e\nTo fix this issue, one must fix kirigami apps so that they can accomodate having window borders. \u003cbr \/\u003e\nOnce this is done (fixing kirigami), then should we revisit what the default should be, among a set of equally good looking options.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eOn the argument: third party apps look ugly when there are window border.\u003cbr \/\u003e\nSince when do we do design decision based on thid party apps ? There will always be some party apps that break your design decisions, no matter what they are. \u003cbr \/\u003e\nI would rather focus the discussion on native kde applications.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eLooking at kde, non kirigami (which needs fixing) applications, most of the ones I can think of (dolphin, okular, spectacle, etc.) accomodate the presence or absence of window borders just fine.\u003c\/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eSo again, I don't see any valid strong argument for changing the default.\u003c\/p\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-145709\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_1010\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-minor-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/z7cnrvfsyjic3u45zed2\/PHID-FILE-7dqkmvwovjq4wppbdrom\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/hpereiradacosta\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"145709\" id=\"145709\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-user-plus phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_1009\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/hpereiradacosta\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003ehpereiradacosta\u003c\/a\u003e added a subscriber: \u003ca href=\"\/p\/hpereiradacosta\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\" data-sigil=\"hovercard\" data-meta=\"0_241\"\u003ehpereiradacosta\u003c\/a\u003e.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#145709\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_1008\"\u003eJun 2 2018, 12:35 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-spacer\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-shell\" id=\"anchor-145710\" data-sigil=\"transaction\" data-meta=\"0_1013\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-event-view phui-timeline-minor-event\"\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-content\"\u003e\u003ca style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/st5zwikq37izodvzjg7a\/PHID-FILE-3hykxhpwhd5x656lkxhe\/profile)\" class=\"phui-timeline-image\" href=\"\/p\/romangg\/\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-wedge phui-timeline-border\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-group phui-timeline-border\"\u003e\u003ca name=\"145710\" id=\"145710\" class=\"phabricator-anchor-view\"\u003e\u003c\/a\u003e\u003cdiv class=\"phui-timeline-title phui-timeline-title-with-icon\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-icon-fill\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-link phui-timeline-icon\" data-meta=\"0_1012\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/p\/romangg\/\" class=\"phui-handle phui-link-person\"\u003eromangg\u003c\/a\u003e mentioned this in \u003ca href=\"\/D13284\" class=\"phui-handle handle-status-closed\"\u003eD13284: [decorations] Let KDecoration plugins recommend a border size per default\u003c\/a\u003e.\u003cspan class=\"phui-timeline-extra\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#145710\" data-sigil=\"has-tooltip\" data-meta=\"0_1011\"\u003eJun 2 2018, 12:52 PM\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/span\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e\u003c\/div\u003e"},"javelin_metadata":[{"phid":"PHID-FILE-u6xv7y2xhgpi23ol3o35","uri":"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/vmcaxr6hijpweklcxw7q\/PHID-FILE-u6xv7y2xhgpi23ol3o35\/Screenshot_20180516_052742.png","dUri":"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/download\/vmcaxr6hijpweklcxw7q\/PHID-FILE-u6xv7y2xhgpi23ol3o35\/Screenshot_20180516_052742.png","viewable":true,"monogram":"F5850557"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-jq3s5ymaiskiv7akdlte"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-4ppii5ywmrejlbgkceu3"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-jq3s5ymaiskiv7akdlte"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-uwghejbfhru3fndbn5xe"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-jq3s5ymaiskiv7akdlte"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-24d5dujgtpofr4byxu45"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-uwghejbfhru3fndbn5xe"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-jq3s5ymaiskiv7akdlte"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-uwghejbfhru3fndbn5xe"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-uwghejbfhru3fndbn5xe"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-24d5dujgtpofr4byxu45"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-uwghejbfhru3fndbn5xe"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-jq3s5ymaiskiv7akdlte"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-jq3s5ymaiskiv7akdlte"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-jq3s5ymaiskiv7akdlte"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-uwghejbfhru3fndbn5xe"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-24d5dujgtpofr4byxu45"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-uwghejbfhru3fndbn5xe"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-24d5dujgtpofr4byxu45"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-uwghejbfhru3fndbn5xe"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-jq3s5ymaiskiv7akdlte"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-uwghejbfhru3fndbn5xe"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-jq3s5ymaiskiv7akdlte"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-24d5dujgtpofr4byxu45"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-uwghejbfhru3fndbn5xe"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-jq3s5ymaiskiv7akdlte"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-24d5dujgtpofr4byxu45"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-uwghejbfhru3fndbn5xe"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-uwghejbfhru3fndbn5xe"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-jq3s5ymaiskiv7akdlte"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-jq3s5ymaiskiv7akdlte"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-uwghejbfhru3fndbn5xe"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-jq3s5ymaiskiv7akdlte"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-4qhjovwbnuj53o5sjbu5"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-jq3s5ymaiskiv7akdlte"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-uwghejbfhru3fndbn5xe"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-uwghejbfhru3fndbn5xe"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-uwghejbfhru3fndbn5xe"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-uwghejbfhru3fndbn5xe"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-24d5dujgtpofr4byxu45"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-wchyx2fbomhf7dppv6oa"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-24d5dujgtpofr4byxu45"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-24d5dujgtpofr4byxu45"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-TASK-m23wofm5joprh263gozm"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-jq3s5ymaiskiv7akdlte"},{"hoverPHID":"PHID-USER-24d5dujgtpofr4byxu45"},{"phid":"PHID-FILE-tlh7abj6kqatjkyb66sk","uri":"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/data\/sgh4u7th65smsxkqey6f\/PHID-FILE-tlh7abj6kqatjkyb66sk\/Screenshot_20180522_001851.png","dUri":"https:\/\/phabricator.kde.org\/file\/download\/sgh4u7th65smsxkqey6f\/PHID-FILE-tlh7ab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aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_11\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-hzhowu7x5ieen36\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_262\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_263\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-hzhowu7x5ieen36","anchor":"143176"},{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-lqrjb3jri32k6rf","anchor":"143178"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-4tzcq73agtmzv3o\/","ref":"T8707#143179"},[],{"anchor":"143179"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_13\" 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data-meta=\"0_283\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_284\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-fqfupxqdeptklxo","anchor":"143180"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-hdkzp752xtm475z\/","ref":"T8707#143190"},[],{"anchor":"143190"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_21\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_290\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_291\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_23\" 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data-meta=\"0_313\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_314\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-2u4476qmv6o7elf","anchor":"143194"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-5diifxuotocvjt2\/","ref":"T8707#143195"},[],{"anchor":"143195"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_33\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_320\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_321\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_35\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-5diifxuotocvjt2\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_322\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_323\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-5diifxuotocvjt2","anchor":"143195"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-2xmjxhv3c6ivhfy\/","ref":"T8707#143196"},[],{"anchor":"143196"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_37\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_329\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_330\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_39\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-2xmjxhv3c6ivhfy\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_331\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_332\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-wz2pextsykn2bez","anchor":"143196"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-by4fox43jspxbse\/","ref":"T8707#143198"},[],{"anchor":"143198"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_41\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_338\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_339\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_43\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-by4fox43jspxbse\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_340\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_341\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-by4fox43jspxbse","anchor":"143198"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-phoz6pav75kgohn\/","ref":"T8707#143199"},[],{"anchor":"143199"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_45\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_347\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_348\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_47\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-phoz6pav75kgohn\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_349\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_350\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-phoz6pav75kgohn","anchor":"143199"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-l7f5rwuo72l2vty\/","ref":"T8707#143200"},[],{"anchor":"143200"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_49\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_356\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_357\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_51\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-l7f5rwuo72l2vty\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_358\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_359\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-l7f5rwuo72l2vty","anchor":"143200"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-3wtjy225n6euwdr\/","ref":"T8707#143201"},[],{"anchor":"143201"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_53\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_365\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_366\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_55\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-3wtjy225n6euwdr\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_367\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_368\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-3wtjy225n6euwdr","anchor":"143201"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-w6l4xhgoq3kgg26\/","ref":"T8707#143203"},[],{"anchor":"143203"},[],[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_57\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_374\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_375\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_59\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-w6l4xhgoq3kgg26\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_376\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_377\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_61\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/history\/PHID-XACT-TASK-w6l4xhgoq3kgg26\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"workflow\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-list phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_378\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Edit History\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-w6l4xhgoq3kgg26","anchor":"143203"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-7byin4omfuflhib\/","ref":"T8707#143204"},[],{"anchor":"143204"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_63\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_384\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_385\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_65\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-7byin4omfuflhib\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_386\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_387\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-7byin4omfuflhib","anchor":"143204"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-yduupbhi3k2gbdn\/","ref":"T8707#143205"},[],{"anchor":"143205"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_67\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_393\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_394\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_69\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-yduupbhi3k2gbdn\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_395\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_396\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-yduupbhi3k2gbdn","anchor":"143205"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-2pahspvwhxkx4hi\/","ref":"T8707#143206"},[],{"anchor":"143206"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_71\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_402\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_403\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_73\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-2pahspvwhxkx4hi\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_404\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_405\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-2pahspvwhxkx4hi","anchor":"143206"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-crdhbz75xp7mhn3\/","ref":"T8707#143207"},[],{"anchor":"143207"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_75\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_411\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_412\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_77\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-crdhbz75xp7mhn3\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_413\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_414\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-crdhbz75xp7mhn3","anchor":"143207"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-33rsnrilzvpzo53\/","ref":"T8707#143217"},[],{"anchor":"143217"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_79\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_420\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_421\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_81\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-33rsnrilzvpzo53\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_422\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_423\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-33rsnrilzvpzo53","anchor":"143217"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-wop5u6qnicdurwn\/","ref":"T8707#143218"},[],{"anchor":"143218"},[],[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_83\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_429\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_430\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_85\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-wop5u6qnicdurwn\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_431\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_432\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_87\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/history\/PHID-XACT-TASK-wop5u6qnicdurwn\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"workflow\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-list phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_433\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Edit History\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-wop5u6qnicdurwn","anchor":"143218"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-q3p3xzapi7m7xwa\/","ref":"T8707#143224"},[],{"anchor":"143224"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_89\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_439\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_440\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_91\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-q3p3xzapi7m7xwa\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_441\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_442\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-q3p3xzapi7m7xwa","anchor":"143224"},{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-36afdqi4kbb7sj3","anchor":"143228"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-fde7qbkxlrj72fp\/","ref":"T8707#143230"},[],{"anchor":"143230"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_93\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_451\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_452\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_95\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-fde7qbkxlrj72fp\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_453\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_454\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-fde7qbkxlrj72fp","anchor":"143230"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-cwqktk4zajyypew\/","ref":"T8707#143231"},[],{"anchor":"143231"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_97\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_460\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_461\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_99\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-cwqktk4zajyypew\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_462\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_463\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-cwqktk4zajyypew","anchor":"143231"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-m5gdyxk7ld47gfs\/","ref":"T8707#143232"},[],{"anchor":"143232"},[],[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_101\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_469\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_470\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_103\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-m5gdyxk7ld47gfs\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_471\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_472\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_105\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/history\/PHID-XACT-TASK-m5gdyxk7ld47gfs\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"workflow\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-list phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_473\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Edit History\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-m5gdyxk7ld47gfs","anchor":"143232"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-prtu4pnv4uuh6qw\/","ref":"T8707#143233"},[],{"anchor":"143233"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_107\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_479\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_480\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_109\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-prtu4pnv4uuh6qw\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_481\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_482\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-prtu4pnv4uuh6qw","anchor":"143233"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-efpzbafvha65orw\/","ref":"T8707#143234"},[],{"anchor":"143234"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_111\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_488\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_489\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_113\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-efpzbafvha65orw\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_490\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_491\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-efpzbafvha65orw","anchor":"143234"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-yy2bd7eazgsbawc\/","ref":"T8707#143235"},[],{"anchor":"143235"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_115\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_497\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_498\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_117\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-yy2bd7eazgsbawc\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_499\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_500\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-yy2bd7eazgsbawc","anchor":"143235"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-pcph32vfuruaxbc\/","ref":"T8707#143236"},[],{"anchor":"143236"},[],[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_119\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_506\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_507\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_121\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-pcph32vfuruaxbc\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_508\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_509\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_123\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/history\/PHID-XACT-TASK-pcph32vfuruaxbc\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"workflow\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-list phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_510\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Edit History\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-pcph32vfuruaxbc","anchor":"143236"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-aeh3t622oi6r2zz\/","ref":"T8707#143237"},[],{"anchor":"143237"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_125\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_516\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_517\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_127\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-aeh3t622oi6r2zz\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_518\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_519\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-aeh3t622oi6r2zz","anchor":"143237"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-rfzgjfgiou64z5r\/","ref":"T8707#143238"},[],{"anchor":"143238"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_129\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_525\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_526\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_131\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-rfzgjfgiou64z5r\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_527\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_528\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-rfzgjfgiou64z5r","anchor":"143238"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-jytzdvc6xbyr4hl\/","ref":"T8707#143241"},[],{"anchor":"143241"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_133\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_534\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_535\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_135\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-jytzdvc6xbyr4hl\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_536\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_537\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-jytzdvc6xbyr4hl","anchor":"143241"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-iojgnivjxz4somh\/","ref":"T8707#143242"},[],{"anchor":"143242"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_137\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_543\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_544\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_139\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-iojgnivjxz4somh\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_545\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_546\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-iojgnivjxz4somh","anchor":"143242"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-q7u5vwh6k6ydoqt\/","ref":"T8707#143245"},[],{"anchor":"143245"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_141\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_552\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_553\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_143\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-q7u5vwh6k6ydoqt\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_554\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_555\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-q7u5vwh6k6ydoqt","anchor":"143245"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-xmhag7fmssvx7ka\/","ref":"T8707#143264"},[],{"anchor":"143264"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_145\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_561\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_562\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_147\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-xmhag7fmssvx7ka\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_563\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_564\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-5mytuquine6i3lz","anchor":"143264"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-77nydlx6l2ejcz7\/","ref":"T8707#143269"},[],{"anchor":"143269"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_149\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_570\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_571\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_151\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-77nydlx6l2ejcz7\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_572\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_573\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-77nydlx6l2ejcz7","anchor":"143269"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-koz23vbr5gtgkad\/","ref":"T8707#143270"},[],{"anchor":"143270"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_153\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_579\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_580\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_155\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-koz23vbr5gtgkad\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_581\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_582\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-fe264bgaqjtgoh5","anchor":"143270"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-zr5yn5rq2s4uafl\/","ref":"T8707#143272"},[],{"anchor":"143272"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_157\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_588\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_589\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_159\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-zr5yn5rq2s4uafl\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_590\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_591\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-zr5yn5rq2s4uafl","anchor":"143272"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-h3rg5u75dkydsce\/","ref":"T8707#143274"},[],{"anchor":"143274"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_161\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_597\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_598\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_163\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-h3rg5u75dkydsce\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_599\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_600\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-h3rg5u75dkydsce","anchor":"143274"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-3k5atovw6q56tzv\/","ref":"T8707#143275"},[],{"anchor":"143275"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_165\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_606\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_607\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_167\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-3k5atovw6q56tzv\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_608\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_609\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-3k5atovw6q56tzv","anchor":"143275"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-qojhlz2mzsbtez6\/","ref":"T8707#143426"},[],{"anchor":"143426"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_169\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_615\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_616\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_171\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-qojhlz2mzsbtez6\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_617\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_618\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-qojhlz2mzsbtez6","anchor":"143426"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-sslsj5iriqxze4z\/","ref":"T8707#143427"},[],{"anchor":"143427"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_173\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_624\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_625\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_175\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-sslsj5iriqxze4z\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_626\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_627\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-sslsj5iriqxze4z","anchor":"143427"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-adcujl7dsmnq3hg\/","ref":"T8707#143719"},[],{"anchor":"143719"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_177\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_633\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_634\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_179\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-adcujl7dsmnq3hg\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_635\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_636\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-adcujl7dsmnq3hg","anchor":"143719"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-3d4gvvpsajzyv4t\/","ref":"T8707#143721"},[],{"anchor":"143721"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_181\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_642\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_643\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_183\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-3d4gvvpsajzyv4t\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_644\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_645\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-3d4gvvpsajzyv4t","anchor":"143721"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-elw57zvxdf2oqkh\/","ref":"T8707#143739"},[],{"anchor":"143739"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_185\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_651\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_652\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_187\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-elw57zvxdf2oqkh\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_653\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_654\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-elw57zvxdf2oqkh","anchor":"143739"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-ruzu6qow7pz7zlj\/","ref":"T8707#143740"},[],{"anchor":"143740"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_189\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_660\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_661\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_191\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-ruzu6qow7pz7zlj\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_662\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_663\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-ruzu6qow7pz7zlj","anchor":"143740"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-wdexzhiqwl7lbhh\/","ref":"T8707#143754"},[],{"anchor":"143754"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_193\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_669\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_670\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_195\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-wdexzhiqwl7lbhh\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_671\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_672\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-wdexzhiqwl7lbhh","anchor":"143754"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-6xumjkjjtldcj2c\/","ref":"T8707#143755"},[],{"anchor":"143755"},[],[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_197\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_678\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_679\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_199\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-6xumjkjjtldcj2c\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_680\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_681\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_201\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/history\/PHID-XACT-TASK-6xumjkjjtldcj2c\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"workflow\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-list phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_682\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Edit History\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-6xumjkjjtldcj2c","anchor":"143755"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-ilhulznjelx5vkg\/","ref":"T8707#143890"},[],{"anchor":"143890"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_203\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_688\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_689\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_205\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-ilhulznjelx5vkg\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_690\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_691\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-ilhulznjelx5vkg","anchor":"143890"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-62xpbwb6arwrcpd\/","ref":"T8707#143891"},[],{"anchor":"143891"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_207\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_697\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_698\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_209\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-62xpbwb6arwrcpd\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_699\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_700\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-62xpbwb6arwrcpd","anchor":"143891"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-fpeympptazq67hv\/","ref":"T8707#143993"},[],{"anchor":"143993"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_211\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_706\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_707\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_213\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-fpeympptazq67hv\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_708\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_709\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-fpeympptazq67hv","anchor":"143993"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-sahee6qypopkzbv\/","ref":"T8707#143994"},[],{"anchor":"143994"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_215\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_715\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_716\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_217\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-sahee6qypopkzbv\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_717\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_718\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-sahee6qypopkzbv","anchor":"143994"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-q6e32sfbdnsoqav\/","ref":"T8707#144015"},[],{"anchor":"144015"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_219\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_724\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_725\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_221\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-q6e32sfbdnsoqav\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_726\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_727\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-q6e32sfbdnsoqav","anchor":"144015"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-qhle52alpasu4ff\/","ref":"T8707#144274"},[],{"anchor":"144274"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_223\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_733\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_734\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_225\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-qhle52alpasu4ff\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_735\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_736\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-qhle52alpasu4ff","anchor":"144274"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-reevsdm4kjzreeh\/","ref":"T8707#144277"},[],{"anchor":"144277"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_227\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_742\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_743\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_229\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-reevsdm4kjzreeh\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_744\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_745\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-reevsdm4kjzreeh","anchor":"144277"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-qc5ennzmx2b6m7j\/","ref":"T8707#144278"},[],{"anchor":"144278"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_231\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_751\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_752\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_233\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-qc5ennzmx2b6m7j\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_753\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_754\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-qc5ennzmx2b6m7j","anchor":"144278"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-k4dhqttmaa6mtfe\/","ref":"T8707#144572"},[],{"anchor":"144572"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_235\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_760\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_761\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_237\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-k4dhqttmaa6mtfe\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_762\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_763\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-6zmienym2ssmh2u","anchor":"144572"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-kdthjxaoga7r4pn\/","ref":"T8707#144584"},[],{"anchor":"144584"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_239\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_769\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_770\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_241\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-kdthjxaoga7r4pn\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_771\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_772\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-kdthjxaoga7r4pn","anchor":"144584"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-di3fhcbvd3re5x4\/","ref":"T8707#144585"},[],{"anchor":"144585"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_243\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_778\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_779\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_245\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-di3fhcbvd3re5x4\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_780\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_781\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-di3fhcbvd3re5x4","anchor":"144585"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-rin7dayq2mxzn65\/","ref":"T8707#144586"},[],{"anchor":"144586"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_247\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_787\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_788\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_249\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-rin7dayq2mxzn65\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_789\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_790\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-rin7dayq2mxzn65","anchor":"144586"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-bbksswxcpozw6sx\/","ref":"T8707#144588"},[],{"anchor":"144588"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_251\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_796\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_797\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_253\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-bbksswxcpozw6sx\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_798\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_799\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-6tcdignmewegsm5","anchor":"144588"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-2hsg3yp5cx7fkg4\/","ref":"T8707#144591"},[],{"anchor":"144591"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_255\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_805\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_806\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_257\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-2hsg3yp5cx7fkg4\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_807\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_808\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-2hsg3yp5cx7fkg4","anchor":"144591"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-nwe7l7qtx2ddcnl\/","ref":"T8707#144592"},[],{"anchor":"144592"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_259\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_814\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_815\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_261\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-nwe7l7qtx2ddcnl\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_816\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_817\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-tnqrifdufms2zfr","anchor":"144592"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-7hbhpqbr37n6drl\/","ref":"T8707#144595"},[],{"anchor":"144595"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_263\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_823\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_824\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_265\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-7hbhpqbr37n6drl\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_825\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_826\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-7hbhpqbr37n6drl","anchor":"144595"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-g3mf3oqaxcxeyrs\/","ref":"T8707#144607"},[],{"anchor":"144607"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_267\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_832\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_833\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_269\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-g3mf3oqaxcxeyrs\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_834\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_835\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-g3mf3oqaxcxeyrs","anchor":"144607"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-wv5mmkzgg46gicm\/","ref":"T8707#144608"},[],{"anchor":"144608"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_271\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_841\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_842\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_273\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-wv5mmkzgg46gicm\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_843\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_844\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-wv5mmkzgg46gicm","anchor":"144608"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-ymw77lj6hjq5tan\/","ref":"T8707#144633"},[],{"anchor":"144633"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_275\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_850\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_851\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_277\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-ymw77lj6hjq5tan\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_852\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_853\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-ymw77lj6hjq5tan","anchor":"144633"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-chyrfuxnbn4hkmc\/","ref":"T8707#144679"},[],{"anchor":"144679"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_279\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_859\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_860\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_281\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-chyrfuxnbn4hkmc\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_861\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_862\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-chyrfuxnbn4hkmc","anchor":"144679"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-bgyqlykpqhnx7yl\/","ref":"T8707#145633"},[],{"anchor":"145633"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_283\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_868\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_869\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_285\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-bgyqlykpqhnx7yl\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_870\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_871\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-bgyqlykpqhnx7yl","anchor":"145633"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-hq56mqn72z7pa3p\/","ref":"T8707#145634"},[],{"anchor":"145634"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_287\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_877\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_878\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_289\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-hq56mqn72z7pa3p\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_879\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_880\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-hq56mqn72z7pa3p","anchor":"145634"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-ow57iz6rfzwlirp\/","ref":"T8707#145637"},[],{"anchor":"145637"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_291\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_886\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_887\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_293\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-ow57iz6rfzwlirp\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_888\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_889\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-ow57iz6rfzwlirp","anchor":"145637"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-56kfpaseuwv7blp\/","ref":"T8707#145659"},[],{"anchor":"145659"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_295\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_895\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_896\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_297\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-56kfpaseuwv7blp\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_897\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_898\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-56kfpaseuwv7blp","anchor":"145659"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-voj3hyh3vqgs5kk\/","ref":"T8707#145660"},[],{"anchor":"145660"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_299\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_904\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_905\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_301\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-voj3hyh3vqgs5kk\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_906\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_907\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-voj3hyh3vqgs5kk","anchor":"145660"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-5rnfjpcd664xow3\/","ref":"T8707#145661"},[],{"anchor":"145661"},[],[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_303\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_913\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_914\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_305\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-5rnfjpcd664xow3\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_915\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_916\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_307\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/history\/PHID-XACT-TASK-5rnfjpcd664xow3\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"workflow\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-list phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_917\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Edit History\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-6wh3inhse6lgqur","anchor":"145661"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-kezh6qrjbvwaheg\/","ref":"T8707#145663"},[],{"anchor":"145663"},[],[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_309\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_923\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_924\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_311\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-kezh6qrjbvwaheg\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_925\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_926\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_313\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/history\/PHID-XACT-TASK-kezh6qrjbvwaheg\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"workflow\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-list phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_927\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Edit History\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-kezh6qrjbvwaheg","anchor":"145663"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-gdowea5m4xbdg7a\/","ref":"T8707#145664"},[],{"anchor":"145664"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_315\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_933\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_934\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_317\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-gdowea5m4xbdg7a\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_935\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_936\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-gdowea5m4xbdg7a","anchor":"145664"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-fka4dcfdunqjkz5\/","ref":"T8707#145665"},[],{"anchor":"145665"},[],[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_319\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_942\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_943\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_321\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-fka4dcfdunqjkz5\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_944\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_945\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_323\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/history\/PHID-XACT-TASK-fka4dcfdunqjkz5\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"workflow\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-list phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_946\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Edit History\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-fka4dcfdunqjkz5","anchor":"145665"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-lzdliixqqy7qtus\/","ref":"T8707#145672"},[],{"anchor":"145672"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_325\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_952\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_953\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_327\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-lzdliixqqy7qtus\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_954\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_955\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via 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class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/history\/PHID-XACT-TASK-pa6sqwl2llwhqjz\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"workflow\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-list phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_975\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Edit History\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-pa6sqwl2llwhqjz","anchor":"145674"},{"tip":"Via Conduit"},[],[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-quzp52fnueh2c2l","anchor":"145678"},{"targetID":"UQ0_1","uri":"\/transactions\/quote\/PHID-XACT-TASK-77cr7cvsdipncr4\/","ref":"T8707#145681"},[],{"anchor":"145681"},[],{"items":"\u003cul class=\"phabricator-action-list-view \"\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_341\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"#\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-quote\" data-meta=\"0_985\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-quote-left phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_986\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eQuote Comment\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003cli id=\"UQ0_343\" class=\"phabricator-action-view phabricator-action-view-href action-has-icon\" style=\"\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\/transactions\/raw\/PHID-XACT-TASK-77cr7cvsdipncr4\/\" class=\"phabricator-action-view-item\" data-sigil=\"transaction-raw\" data-meta=\"0_987\"\u003e\u003cspan class=\"visual-only phui-icon-view phui-font-fa fa-code phabricator-action-view-icon\" data-meta=\"0_988\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003c\/span\u003eView Remarkup\u003c\/a\u003e\u003c\/li\u003e\u003c\/ul\u003e"},[],{"tip":"Via Web"},[],{"phid":"PHID-XACT-TASK-77cr7cvsdipncr4","anchor":"145681"},{"tip":"Via 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