Goal: ConsistencyProject
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Sun, Jan 19

ngraham moved T9126: Breeze scrollbar look-and-feel unification from VDG Discussion to Apps Implementation on the Goal: Consistency board.
Sun, Jan 19, 3:11 AM · KDE Applications, Plasma, Breeze, Kirigami, Goal: Consistency, VDG
ngraham closed T9126: Breeze scrollbar look-and-feel unification as Resolved.

Welp, this is done now!

Sun, Jan 19, 3:11 AM · KDE Applications, Plasma, Breeze, Kirigami, Goal: Consistency, VDG
ngraham closed T9126: Breeze scrollbar look-and-feel unification, a subtask of T11093: Improve Consistency across the Board, as Resolved.
Sun, Jan 19, 3:11 AM · Goal: Consistency, Goal Setting 2019
ognarb updated the task description for T10827: Website redesign.
Sun, Jan 19, 1:57 AM · Goal: All About the Apps, Goal: Consistency, Websites

Sat, Jan 18

ognarb moved T10827: Website redesign from other stuff to Meta on the Websites board.
Sat, Jan 18, 10:22 PM · Goal: All About the Apps, Goal: Consistency, Websites
ognarb closed T11403: Update kmymoney website, a subtask of T10827: Website redesign, as Resolved.
Sat, Jan 18, 10:20 PM · Goal: All About the Apps, Goal: Consistency, Websites

Fri, Jan 17

kkoma added a comment to T12433: Consider how to unify Latte and Plasma Panels.

There's another category of user you're missing: the productivity user. This person uses their computer for work. This person may or may not be a technical expert, but they know more about their computer than the novice. Because this person's computer is a work machine, they have better things to do than tweak things. This person is sensitive to good defaults and wants to be able to turn on the machine and immediately get to work. They may customize some things, but the customizations are more likely to be functional than visual. Because of this, if they go to customize something but find a huge number of visual tweak settings, they will get frustrated.

Fri, Jan 17, 12:24 PM · VDG, Plasma, Latte Dock, Goal: Consistency

Thu, Jan 16

niccolove added a comment to T12441: Consider using a vertical Icons-Only Task Manager populated with apps, and a thickened panel.

So I'm not getting a ton of love for the vertical panel idea, which is fine; it's not a critical part of this proposal. Windows uses a horizontal IOTM and the entire world hasn't caught fire yet.

Would folks be happier if we scratch the vertical idea and change the proposal to just use an IOTM and thicken the existing horizontal panel a bit? This would have the benefit of being even more familiar with switching Windows users.

Thu, Jan 16, 4:36 PM · Goal: Consistency, VDG, Plasma

Wed, Jan 15

ngraham added a revision to T9126: Breeze scrollbar look-and-feel unification: D26685: Make the scrollbar always thick.
Wed, Jan 15, 2:36 PM · KDE Applications, Plasma, Breeze, Kirigami, Goal: Consistency, VDG

Tue, Jan 14

ngraham added a comment to T9126: Breeze scrollbar look-and-feel unification.

This is happening; see the linked patches. Here's what's happening:

  • On the desktop, scrollbars return to their prior thickness and are always visible in a separated track regardless of the toolkit (QTWidgets, bare QQC2 on desktop, Kirigami on desktop
  • On mobile with Kirigami or bare QQC2, scrollbars are always overlay style with no layout hacks, which means they can cover the content while in use. When not in use, they flatten out and hug the edge, remaining (barely) visible to serve as an indication of scroll position without getting in anyone's way
Tue, Jan 14, 4:00 PM · KDE Applications, Plasma, Breeze, Kirigami, Goal: Consistency, VDG
ngraham added a revision to T9126: Breeze scrollbar look-and-feel unification: D26655: show a thin separator between view and scrollbar.
Tue, Jan 14, 3:46 PM · KDE Applications, Plasma, Breeze, Kirigami, Goal: Consistency, VDG
ngraham added a revision to T9126: Breeze scrollbar look-and-feel unification: D26654: support mobile mode scrollbar.
Tue, Jan 14, 3:45 PM · KDE Applications, Plasma, Breeze, Kirigami, Goal: Consistency, VDG

Mon, Jan 13

ngraham added a comment to T12433: Consider how to unify Latte and Plasma Panels.

However clearly Latte's genesis was for people dissatisfied with the default appearance and functionality and wanting more control and a better look. So it makes sense that it targets tweakers and ricers. If Latte were to become the default panel solution, clearly it would be adapted to become more user-friendly for the default and productivity users.

I suppose the question is whether it makes more sense to make Latte more suitable for these people than it does to fix bugs in the default panel and add missing features to it, and accept that people who want more customizability and visual appeal can use Latte instead.

Personally, I think that it's technically easier to fix latte rather than plasma panel, especially since it's already quite user-friendly for beginners IMO. I guess you have the opposite opinion here?

Mon, Jan 13, 9:39 PM · VDG, Plasma, Latte Dock, Goal: Consistency
niccolove added a comment to T12433: Consider how to unify Latte and Plasma Panels.

However clearly Latte's genesis was for people dissatisfied with the default appearance and functionality and wanting more control and a better look. So it makes sense that it targets tweakers and ricers. If Latte were to become the default panel solution, clearly it would be adapted to become more user-friendly for the default and productivity users.

I suppose the question is whether it makes more sense to make Latte more suitable for these people than it does to fix bugs in the default panel and add missing features to it, and accept that people who want more customizability and visual appeal can use Latte instead.

Mon, Jan 13, 9:35 PM · VDG, Plasma, Latte Dock, Goal: Consistency
ngraham added a comment to T12433: Consider how to unify Latte and Plasma Panels.

However clearly Latte's genesis was for people dissatisfied with the default appearance and functionality and wanting more control and a better look. So it makes sense that it targets tweakers and ricers. If Latte were to become the default panel solution, clearly it would be adapted to become more user-friendly for the default and productivity users.

Mon, Jan 13, 9:27 PM · VDG, Plasma, Latte Dock, Goal: Consistency
ngraham added a comment to T12433: Consider how to unify Latte and Plasma Panels.

There's another category of user you're missing: the productivity user. This person uses their computer for work. This person may or may not be a technical expert, but they know more about their computer than the novice. Because this person's computer is a work machine, they have better things to do than tweak things. This person is sensitive to good defaults and wants to be able to turn on the machine and immediately get to work. They may customize some things, but the customizations are more likely to be functional than visual. Because of this, if they go to customize something but find a huge number of visual tweak settings, they will get frustrated.

Mon, Jan 13, 9:25 PM · VDG, Plasma, Latte Dock, Goal: Consistency
niccolove added a project to T12433: Consider how to unify Latte and Plasma Panels: VDG.
Mon, Jan 13, 8:52 PM · VDG, Plasma, Latte Dock, Goal: Consistency
niccolove added a comment to T12433: Consider how to unify Latte and Plasma Panels.

And I think Plasma opinion is quite important

Mon, Jan 13, 8:48 PM · VDG, Plasma, Latte Dock, Goal: Consistency
ognarb added a project to T12433: Consider how to unify Latte and Plasma Panels: Plasma.

-1 from my side. Latte is awesome for a ricer who want to customize is desktop, but for the average user it isn't an improvement over Plasma. Anybody who want to use Latte can easily install it from Discover.

Mon, Jan 13, 6:41 PM · VDG, Plasma, Latte Dock, Goal: Consistency
romangg updated the task description for T11520: Improve keyboard shortcuts, standardization, RSI preventability.
Mon, Jan 13, 6:12 PM · Goal: Consistency, Plasma Accessibility
niccolove updated the task description for T12433: Consider how to unify Latte and Plasma Panels.
Mon, Jan 13, 5:58 PM · VDG, Plasma, Latte Dock, Goal: Consistency
thiagosueto added a comment to T11520: Improve keyboard shortcuts, standardization, RSI preventability.

Okay, I think aside from Windows and OSX, we already have most major DEs and keyboard-driven environments here, and it's been a while since we had input from other people. Part 1 of section Tasks to be done in order to achieve this is already quite significant. I'll continue working on that, but that does not hinder discussion here, to be clear.

Mon, Jan 13, 3:06 AM · Goal: Consistency, Plasma Accessibility
thiagosueto updated the task description for T11520: Improve keyboard shortcuts, standardization, RSI preventability.
Mon, Jan 13, 2:51 AM · Goal: Consistency, Plasma Accessibility

Thu, Jan 9

ognarb closed T11335: Update kphotoalbum website, a subtask of T10827: Website redesign, as Resolved.
Thu, Jan 9, 9:19 PM · Goal: All About the Apps, Goal: Consistency, Websites
ognarb closed T11404: Update rkward website, a subtask of T10827: Website redesign, as Resolved.
Thu, Jan 9, 9:18 PM · Goal: All About the Apps, Goal: Consistency, Websites
ngraham added a comment to T12441: Consider using a vertical Icons-Only Task Manager populated with apps, and a thickened panel.

Thanks for the support, I quite like it too. :)

Thu, Jan 9, 3:39 PM · Goal: Consistency, VDG, Plasma
odinu added a comment to T12441: Consider using a vertical Icons-Only Task Manager populated with apps, and a thickened panel.

I'd like to argue a bit in favor of the vertical panel. With widescreens being so prevalent and even wider ones on the horizon (ultrawide) it makes little sense to take up the horizontal screen space with the taskbar.
On the other hand if you have a browser open, even with 2 windows side by side most pages aren't wide enough to use all the screen space, so a taskbar fits in there as well.
Plus it gives you enough room to make the icons a little bigger and to have 2 smaller icons in the notifications area side-by-side.

Thu, Jan 9, 10:57 AM · Goal: Consistency, VDG, Plasma
adrianchavesfernandez added a comment to D25343: Add an initial page for animations.

Please, push a commit to fix the headers. See https://binary-factory.kde.org/job/Website_hig-kde-org/157/console

Thu, Jan 9, 8:37 AM · VDG, KDE Human Interface Guidelines, Goal: Consistency

Wed, Jan 8

ahiemstra added a revision to T9126: Breeze scrollbar look-and-feel unification: D26530: ScrollView: Do not overlay scrollbars over contents.
Wed, Jan 8, 8:10 PM · KDE Applications, Plasma, Breeze, Kirigami, Goal: Consistency, VDG
ngraham added projects to T9126: Breeze scrollbar look-and-feel unification: Kirigami, Breeze, Plasma, KDE Applications.
Wed, Jan 8, 6:54 PM · KDE Applications, Plasma, Breeze, Kirigami, Goal: Consistency, VDG

Tue, Jan 7

ngraham added a comment to D25343: Add an initial page for animations.

I've landed this for you in https://cgit.kde.org/websites/hig-kde-org.git/commit/?id=ad3d052e47f0d24f0548bd14cff2749345ea5968

Tue, Jan 7, 4:06 PM · VDG, KDE Human Interface Guidelines, Goal: Consistency
ngraham closed D25343: Add an initial page for animations.
Tue, Jan 7, 4:05 PM · VDG, KDE Human Interface Guidelines, Goal: Consistency
davidedmundson added a comment to D25343: Add an initial page for animations.

Apparently I am not that important :(

Tue, Jan 7, 4:00 PM · VDG, KDE Human Interface Guidelines, Goal: Consistency
ngraham added a comment to D25343: Add an initial page for animations.

Shipit! Do you have commit access for the HIG repo?

Tue, Jan 7, 3:57 PM · VDG, KDE Human Interface Guidelines, Goal: Consistency
ndavis accepted D25343: Add an initial page for animations.
Tue, Jan 7, 5:04 AM · VDG, KDE Human Interface Guidelines, Goal: Consistency

Mon, Jan 6

ngraham accepted D25343: Add an initial page for animations.

LGTM. VDG and Goal: Consistency folks, is this good now?

Mon, Jan 6, 6:18 PM · VDG, KDE Human Interface Guidelines, Goal: Consistency
davidedmundson added a comment to D25343: Add an initial page for animations.

Done, I'll leave it to the VDG/consistency goal to be sure things match.

Mon, Jan 6, 6:16 PM · VDG, KDE Human Interface Guidelines, Goal: Consistency
davidedmundson updated the diff for D25343: Add an initial page for animations.

update

Mon, Jan 6, 6:15 PM · VDG, KDE Human Interface Guidelines, Goal: Consistency
davidedmundson added a comment to D25343: Add an initial page for animations.

Ok, will update.

Mon, Jan 6, 6:13 PM · VDG, KDE Human Interface Guidelines, Goal: Consistency
ngraham added a comment to D25343: Add an initial page for animations.

Having played with it a bit, I agree with @sefaeyeoglu here. Reversing them from what's currently proposed feels nicer to me. Things enter faster, which is ultimately what you want for things that animate from invisible to visible.

Mon, Jan 6, 6:01 PM · VDG, KDE Human Interface Guidelines, Goal: Consistency

Fri, Jan 3

sefaeyeoglu added a comment to D25343: Add an initial page for animations.

As mentioned in D18000 I think the following two things should be adjusted. I think it is more natural that way.

Fri, Jan 3, 11:12 PM · VDG, KDE Human Interface Guidelines, Goal: Consistency
squeakypancakes added a watcher for Goal: Consistency: squeakypancakes.
Fri, Jan 3, 7:22 PM
ngraham added a comment to T12441: Consider using a vertical Icons-Only Task Manager populated with apps, and a thickened panel.

So I'm not getting a ton of love for the vertical panel idea, which is fine; it's not a critical part of this proposal. Windows uses a horizontal IOTM and the entire world hasn't caught fire yet.

Fri, Jan 3, 3:02 PM · Goal: Consistency, VDG, Plasma

Thu, Jan 2

ngraham added a comment to T12441: Consider using a vertical Icons-Only Task Manager populated with apps, and a thickened panel.

Since Windows itself now defaults to an IOTM equivalent (since Windows 7), and most office workers who have multi-screen setups are using Windows, either an IOTM isn't actually a problem for this use case, or else people with multiple screens are probably the kinds of people who can configure their workspaces for efficiency and aren't impacted as much by the default settings of their OSs.

Thu, Jan 2, 5:44 PM · Goal: Consistency, VDG, Plasma
xyquadrat updated the task description for T10827: Website redesign.
Thu, Jan 2, 3:55 PM · Goal: All About the Apps, Goal: Consistency, Websites
felixernst added a comment to T11579: Unify navigation through sidebar categories/views.

@esokrates, I think that's a good idea. It does make sense to me to be able to collapse it even further. This would make a "Hide Sidebar"-button in a toolbar even less necessary. So consider it added to my proposal.

Thu, Jan 2, 3:38 PM · Goal: Consistency, KDE Human Interface Guidelines, VDG
esokrates added a comment to T11579: Unify navigation through sidebar categories/views.

Could you please add hiding the sidebar altogether to the proposal? If you go that expansion path, further collapsing from the vertical could lead to the sidebar being hidden altogether with only a slight visual hint that there is something that can be expanded (like the libreoffice sidepane).

Thu, Jan 2, 9:35 AM · Goal: Consistency, KDE Human Interface Guidelines, VDG
fabianr added a comment to T12441: Consider using a vertical Icons-Only Task Manager populated with apps, and a thickened panel.

There is no workflow that fits all, but we can make educated guesses about the workflow that fits most (this is the point of defaults, after all). As I mentioned in the description, I think the reason why this makes sense is because most users today have an app-based workflow moreso than a window-based workflow. This is due to the changing nature of how apps work today: more and more are single-window apps, with integrated tabbing features for working with multiple documents/views/emails/whatevers. I'll admit that this is a bit of an educated guess on my part, but it's based on observations of the functioning of apps used by me and others I know, and I think it's notable that every other platform has switched to a Dock-style paradigm. Clearly they all thought there was some advantage.

Thu, Jan 2, 8:56 AM · Goal: Consistency, VDG, Plasma

Tue, Dec 31

ngraham added a comment to T12441: Consider using a vertical Icons-Only Task Manager populated with apps, and a thickened panel.

Why do we insist on changing the default to look like XYZ instead of promoting and improve T11743 ?

Tue, Dec 31, 2:45 PM · Goal: Consistency, VDG, Plasma
fabianr added a comment to T12441: Consider using a vertical Icons-Only Task Manager populated with apps, and a thickened panel.

Why do we insist on changing the default to look like XYZ instead of promoting and improve T11743 ?

Tue, Dec 31, 10:41 AM · Goal: Consistency, VDG, Plasma