I think I can make the Kdenlive live demo, if you are still interested
in.
let me know.
Cheers.
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Following Nicolas invitation here I'm.
The option 2 is very interesting (I personally like it) but I think is not too intuitive.
I don't know which is the easiest way to implement the feature we are talking about.
The option 1 is still the best one, in my opinion. I guess you can drop down the audio all the time you want, so if you lost, for eg, some sync you can trash the previous audio and drop it again from the original clips.
I think it could be interesting, if it's not a pain to produce, that you can split also the video from the audio too (it happens that you just keep the audio stream of a clip and later you need the video again. Generally you use the locate clip in the bin feature or the match frame to recover it)

New report on 18.08 Beta 0

Hi guys.
I'm still checking the beta2; as I'm still using Ubuntu 16.04, I need the appimage to run Kdenlive (I can't compile it)
Here is a new list of issues I found:

Hi everybody.
I tested the Beta 1 and I found the following issues (I don't know which of the following item on this list is already know):

Personally I don't believe that we need all this markers.
I just think that we could update the safe zone area markers to fit the standard format which contains a central cross mark and the mid lines on the border.
Check one example here: http://forum.videohelp.com/images/guides/p1716418/safe.jpg
With this kind of tool I never had any issues or limitations

Thanks Farid for your support and to look for videos: I know it's a very time consuming task.
For helping about transitions I create a very short video with all the useful info. I hope it can help to save time in understanding the approach.
In the video I didn't talk about the shortcuts for inserting a default transition on the timeline in the cut where the edit line is: in Premiere Pro they are: Shift+D for video transition, Ctrl+Shift+D for audio cross dissolve.

By hoping to be helpful I drop new feedbacks and answers to your questions:

HI to Farid and to all friends.

Hi Nicolas,
About track insertion:
if you use the strict mode, Kdenlive put the audio and the video track on the set target tracks. If you use the keyboard it is pretty natural to set where to put audio and video if you drag and drop you ask for something more automatic. So, now you are free to drop the video clip where you want but the audio is splitted on the track set as target. If you want to do what you wrote you have just to change the target for the audio. If it's possible to do have a different behaviour (the one you described) when you use the drag and drop approach I guess it's pretty good. But remember that, as the keyboard approach is faster, the majority of professionals use it. So create the new drag and drop behaviour but don't remove the target approach for keyboard.

Here there are some notes I took recently about odd timeline behaviours.
Just for eg: Kdenlive allows you to put an image (jpg, png, etc.) on the audio track and this is an evident no sense. If you are in strict mode you can't even drag it from the audio to a video tracks.

Hi.
I checked the new updates.
The rolling trim works pretty well. Though, in strict mode, it just trim the video and not the audio.
For the rest, I guess that in the future it'll necessary to replace the name of the different modes with icons as it is in other applications because a lot of people don't know the name and the differences between these trimming features so symbols could be helpful for someone. Of course a tab with the name which shows up when you pass on the button with the mouse could be as well usefull for people who knows the name of the feature and want to learn which symbols Kdenlive is using for indicate the functions.

I hope I'll be able to clear all doubts.

I finally tested the new implementation of the rolling trim.
Here below I wrote a list of the suggestions I had while I tested it:

The list of features we created contains all the things Kdenlive titler is still missing at now.
It's not a big list and the titler at today is already pretty good.
For inofs I paste 3 links to the images of Premiere, AVID and FCPX titlers:

After I installed the MLT stable version (instead of the git one) I tried again to test Movit. Now, Kdenlive crashes when you want to palyback the timeline also if you didn't put any effect on any clip.
Here below the copy of the terminal:

After I compiled the latest version the situation I found that the situation has improved a lot.
Now I can launch the application, I can load clips in the project, I can insert some of them in the timeline and I can apply GPU effects but I can't preview the timeline for setting the filter and if I try to do it or if I try to play the timeline Kdenlive crashes.
I tried all this by using the blur filter.
This is the copy of the terminal window:

Though I can't still use the GPU effects on the Nvidia card I found some progress:
Now I can launch the program, load clips and put them on the timeline. Even if Kdenlive is not very stable when you use it with GPU effects turned on it mostly crashes only when you apply a gpu effects to a clip.

Actually, in my configuration, if the GPU effects are turned on you can't use Kdenlive because it immediately crashes.
For this reason, I copied everything happened in my terminal. It was a short sequence and I guess it contains all the infos (Graphic card version, Kdenlive errors, etc) which can help Jean Baptiste.
If your situation is different (for eg Kdenlive crashes only when you use a GPU effect but, for the rest, it's stable and you can use it) you can just turn it on, import a clip, put it on the timeline and add a GPU effect so we'll know what are the differences in your system behaviour; I guess that this could be very useful.
Thanks for the collaboration. :)

I guess we need both EDL and a good Titler because this is what professionals expect to find in a professional application.
Actually for project export they probably would like to have also OMF, but EDL as first step is ok.
Of course a more complete titler embedded in the application is a very very important too,. as it's for some effects and filters (secondary color correction on top of the list).
Of course untill Kdenlive will be not complete, people will have to use differents tools for some job but I guess that in the future we have to find all basic tools inside Kdenlive.
Blender (very good for 3d titling) and Natron are very good compositing platform but are not too comfortable for titling. Maybe it's better to use graphic tools as Gimp or Krita. The major problem with Image editors is that you can't acheive good rolling or crawling titles.
When I wrote about compositors as Blender and Natron, I referred to complex effects and filters that you always find only in basic version inside video editor applications, so if you want to achieve "Hollywood results" ;) you have always to use compositing applications. For this reason, just for eg, Adobe has 2 products Premiere and After Effects, and Apple has FCPX and Motion.

After the latest fixes this is my prompt:

I just found another "strange" behaviour: if you lock the audio track and you can't move the video part of the clip neither in the vertical way just for changing its track.
More: if the audio track is locked and I click on the video part of a grouped clip (or the video track is locked and you click on the audio part) I can't ungroup them because the menu is changed and you have no more this option. The only options we have are:
Insert space, remove space and paste but none of them actually works.

After the new fixes about the relation between audio and video track I found some improvements and some regressions:

Hi Jessed.
Wat we can do for helping Jean-Baptiste is to run Kdenlive by the terminal and copy what the prompt says.
The informations about the crash in 3 differen configurations could be very useful.
Thanks in advance.

I know what SMPTE timecode is.. But all professional videoeditor applications have it. Timecode comes from the analog age.
For this reason I didn't understand why it was inserted into the feature list.
It's as we speak about the import clip feature. You can't use a video software without this feature.
I know that in some application for mobiles or some toy for amateurs timecode sometime is missing but Kdenlive is a professional tool, so timecode is not a plus but it's a basic must.
For which concerning "multiple edits", in all professional videoeditor applications you have multiple timelines in the same project and you can shift from one to another.
Lybrary feature is an interesting tool and it can use as an improved form of the "consolidate" feature. So, personally, I don't think we have to speak about "multiple edits" because library in this situation is a more "rigid" solution to this needs than what a professional can expect. I guess we just have to talk about the "Library" feature for what it is without referring it to the "Multiple edits".
https://kdenlive.org/node/9458#nesting

Hi.
What about of animated gifs which show in 2 seconds the features?
Then about your list:

Do we have already a text for the "Featuure" page?
I guess that before to create the screen shots we have to know what are the features we want to list on the page.
What are the most important and which are less important for creating images based on the text.

I just tested the latest git version (from the kde git as you shown me last time) and for me Ctrl+Click+drag doesn't work.
More now I have the same problem as thediveo: I have no more the two pictures side by side but only a big one half covered by the button.
Of course this is just for giving a feedback. I know you are working on cleaning the code so I rolling feature is in a total work in progress.
For the rest, it's not a problem at all that you mixed the 2 names. I just wrote it for being clear and for avoid issues in next communications.

It's still in a raw state but it actually works.

I just tested the new update but it mostly crashes both in Strict and in Mixed mode.
It happened that in Strict mode it worked only one time and when it occurred Kdenlive performed the rolling operation just on the video, though audio and video was linked toghether.
Anyway this version of Kdenlive now it's too unstable when you use the rolling feature to make further tests.
Let me know what I can do more for helping you.

I'm sorry for making you wait but I tried to use the new feature in "Strict" mode and it made Kdenlive crashes.
After some attempt my mind was lighted by the doubt and I used the clip in "Mixed" mode and I was finally able to perform the action.
As a first comment, sorry if I'm so strict with definition, but you are working on a "Rolling" and not on a "Ripple". Anyway if you read what I wrote in the past I'm sure that "Rolling" is the correct first step.
I tested the new feature by dragging the edit line, by moving it frame by frame from the keyboard and by the mouse (by clicking on the project monitor) and also in dynamic mode (by playing the timeline via JKL) and it always worked perfectly!!! :)
I don't believe we need the accept/cancel buttons: you perform the action and when you quit the trim mode, the clip stay in the position you left them.

Hi, Afarid. :)
Just launch Kdenlive via terminal and copy what the prompt says.
I think that these informations could be useful for Jean-Baptiste.

As I read you make some works on the code for beginning to fix Movit issues I made 2 tests.
The first time Kdenlive crashes just because I loaded a gui layout. The second time because I imported a clip into the project window..

OK. I just don't know why at
https://git.launchpad.net/kdenlive
there is written that the last update was made by Vincent 3 days ago.
Am I missing some details?

It looks like an interesting approach. I hope that you'll put some version of the code on the git soon, so I'll be able to compile and test it.

I agree with you that trimming tools will be a great improvement in the Kdenlive workflow.
But I guess that Jean-Baptiste wants to complete the rendering function before to move to this task.
I guess we have to be a little patient. He said that he felt very tired and he was sorry for the "accident" which occurred.
I hope that we'll can take decisions and we'll focus on further steps during the Kdenlive café #7 which will be on next thursday June 9.

Hi, I reflected on the preview rendering feature:
The timeline based approach is ok. It involves a precise mind set for exploiting it but it's good enough.
Once you learn to think in an "undo" vision, you don't loose too frequently your rendered preview.
I don't know if you want to fine tune the feature as it is now and move forward or if you want to implement it more.
For this second situation I have 1 proposals.
What do you think about a "consolidate" feature? Is it too hard to make Kdenlive able to keep rendered previews inside virtual clips in the Library? Once in the timethine they are immediately "green".
One stupid question, it's very secondary: is it time consuming implement that the latest rendered chunk is shorter than the standard 1 second lenght?
Every feedbacks is accepted. :)

Fast answer to point 3:
I found the combox. I was trying to select the profile through the Kdenlive settings>timeline>Timeline preview profiles panel.

New tests update:

After the new install everything works perfectly.
Just 2 notes:

This is perfect but I suggest to let users choose the folder they want to use mostly for previews files.
When you work on a very big project you can create several Gigas of preview files. So it's always better to target them in a specific disk or, anyway, not on the same disk where you have your OS.
Then if you want to bring your project, with assets and rendering files, to another machine, you can just tell to Kdenlive where to look for them.

I just checked the new timeline toolbar but it is disappeared. Then when I right click on it for customizing, the menu related to the main toolbar (the one which is placed on the top by default) shows up. The idea to have a customizable bar is very good (AVID has this approach for eg) but I wait to see what it'll happen next. In this moment, it is still unusable.

I finally made all the tests.
These are my suggestions by keeping the same number we used for our latest communications.

Great job! As usual! :)
After I read your next steps, I just can say that soon this feature will be complete and very well implemented.
Just a couple of notes:

After the latest update, it's definitely possible to drag and drop folders from inside the application through the "add clip" import browser window.
The only limitation, you still have, is that second level folders are not imported but you can find the materials you stored inside them, in the main folder.
You can't import second level folders even by using the OS folder browser.

I found some interesting "issues" for copying and paste operations and other "strange" behaviours:

I love it. and after you move the widget tab on the top it looks like even better.
I just don't know if it's a good idea the drop down menu for editing modes. Only AVID has editing modes. Actually, it has just 2 modalities. I saw that people who use the mouse for editing on that platform have the habit of shift frequently from one to the other. Who want to behave this way also on Kdenlive, probably, prefers to have direct access to them.
Except to this, I'll prefer to wait for other evolution before to express other comments.
For the moment I believe you did a very good job which really improved the user interface look.
The only thing I'm feeling I could suggest is to make the rendering progress bar a little bit longer: the double of how is it now? But actually I don't know. :)

Sorry for the delay in the daily test.
Before to begin, I must admit that the multiple rendering zone selection is a new approach I never saw before that I like a lot. Great idea!
This together with the option to enable/disable a continuous background rendering of all the areas with effects could be the perfect and final approach for the preview rendering feature.
Now, my today report:

I was reflecting again on the Thediveo idea (https://phabricator.kde.org/T1949#34070) of a "full preview render" button into the future toolbar.
Probably when the "preview render" feature will be complete we could insert a button for enabling/disabling a continuous background rendering of the whole timeline. So while you are working just some of the CPU processing threads could render the job you already made. So, just some moments after you end your job, you can playback it smoothly. This could be useful mostly for 4K h265 productions.

I just tested the latest version you uploaded on the git.
Insert and overwrite feature works no more and I found a small issue in the disable/enable feature. I just opened 2 bug reports.

I finally found a way to do it without any issues. I was able to import even several folder in just one action. :)
I opened Nautilus and I dragged 5 folders from it to the Kdenlive project window.
I tried this operation several times and everything went smooth.
If you don't want to implement it in another way, we can just communicate this way to import folders as the new feature.

I have 1 new notes on this topic:

Update on the yesterday night first impressions:

I checked on other main applications. The ones which have this feature actually behave as Kdenlive is doing now on the latest git version.
More in Kdenlive we have the mute filter just for the audio too.
I guess that you can move this feature in the done column.

Update:
You probably know already that if I open a project and I want to render again a zone I rendered in a previous session, Kdenlive uploads immediately the existing rendering files.

I guess that the change you made was suggested by me.
I apologize for that indication.
Actually, I understood which, I now believe, is better only after the test.
Anyway, I guess we can keep this feature the way it's now and decide later when we used this feature during some real editing sessions.
I'm sorry if I created confusion.

I tested the new fixes:

Finally, I have tested the "Timeline preview render" feature.
As usual, before to start with my notes, I have to make my compliment to you for the job.
For going forward from the messages we wrote yesterday I can add this:

I installed all the packages I still missed on my PC so now I can compile the source from the git clone: so, since now, I'll have no more to wait for PPA compiling.
I just tested the latest version you uploaded half an hour ago.
About the Enable/Disable clips on the timeline feature, I think we can consider it complete.
There is only a very small bug on the graphic side. It's so secondary that I suggest you to fix it only if it's easy and fast to code:

I believe that this approach is the correct one.
:-)

Feedback based on your declarations (the new version is not yet in the master PPA)

I finally tested the new feature.
My opinions are:

It's OK. We can just keep it mind for when it'll be implemented in MLT if it not possible or too time consuming to code it now.

Ok. Thanks a lot for your answer.

I'm sorry to say that though I updated this night to the latest git version I have not the command even in the Clip menu where I already searched.
I tried also to reset the app by removing all the config folders but still no menu voice appears. :(

I don't know what to say.
I have not any icon on the clip strip. I spent several minutes for understanding where the command for enabling and disabling was and then I thought Jean-Baptiste just added the disable status to the code.
Anyway, the icon on the strip is not a bad idea. I thought you inserted the command on the right-click menu and then you used some color modification for remembering to the user which clips were muted.
By the way, I saw that in the audio filter there is a mute filter for audio which does exactly what enable/disable feature does.
I guess that it's better to have a common behaviour for video, audio and groups.

Just one suggestion about it:
I guess you can choose what to render without any color bar which alerts you about what you have to do (every PC hardware is different so every machine is able to playback in a different way the effects and the compositing). If you find an area where your PC is not able to playback the effects or the compositing in RealTime you can just select that zone and render it. Once the rendering is done (maybe in the background so you can continue to work on other areas of the project) a green line could appear on the timeline bar just for reminding you that the area was rendered for timeline preview. The rendered area could be composed of a series of very small files (maybe they could be long just as one GOP) so if you change something in that area Kdenlive has to re-render just the changes.

I used Kdenlive in both modes for checking "strange" behaviours. This is what I found for the moment.

I found why it happens this here:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=362654
At the latest today post j-b-m wrote:

I read it and I tested it too. But when I tried to import .kra files in RGB space, both simple one with just one layer and projects which contain more layers, I had these results: