In D24893#558506, @ngraham wrote:

In D24893#558451, @mart wrote:

clock "always show" is fine too tough

Given that the setting will be off by default, its opposite state is clear enough I'd say. It's not the best string ever, but maybe we should start with this and massage it later or else this will probably be stuck in limbo forever...

I just saw that the board had already signaled its support for this 12 minutes before my comment anyway, so it seems like we're all in agreement :)

As someone who has been deeply involved in the climate justice movement for quite a while now, I can say that the global climate strike is going to be the biggest and most important event for the climate that we've had in a long time.

Integrating it in one page is definitely an improvement!
Some detailed comments (I am aware that those things introduced with this layout change, they just become apparent now):

1. "About" at the top of the page and "About Discover..." are redundant. I'd recommend just integrating the Copyright and license lines above the hline and removing the "About Discover..." heading
2. "Libraries" -> "Libraries used" (might be a bit too long for a tab title but as a title on a page it's perfectly fine)
3. I'd maybe remove the "Please use..." line above the authors because we have the "Report Bug..." button at the top anyway so it would be redundant. If you fear that users might miss the button up there, I'd opt for moving the button elsewhere rather than having two different places for bug reporting on the same page

Great work thank you!
Suggestion for one wording change below, but I'll accept the revision already since it's a small change

Read to land from my perspective, now, thank you again for your work!
And sorry for taking so long to review, I had forgotten that my inaction was blocking the whole process.

Thank you for the changes and replies. The changes are good, now all that's left from my perspective is finding a better word for what you call "configuration", because when especially KDE people read "configuration", they think about something entirely different from what you mean here.

Thank you for this very detailed and comprehensive write-up!
I have a few comments on specific parts, but with these fixed, I believe it's ready to land.

@helderc Yes, we still do mentorship programs!
We regularly participate as a mentoring organization in Google Summer of Code, and we have our own mentoring program called Season of KDE ( https://season.kde.org ).
Apart from that, I'm sure the Kile team qill alo be happy to help if you jump on their mailing list.

In T6832#157770, @ngraham wrote:

Beyond that, it might be a useful change to have products that are closed for new bugs also be invisible on the Advanced Search and Browse lists. This isn't something I can do, and would probably be a sysadmin request. Can you contact sysadmins about that?

Excellent article!
I only have a few language-related comment, I fully agree with the content.
Great work!

In T3064#153115, @abetts wrote:

Here I am speaking mostly of the work that is being done in consolidating virtual desktops and activities, which will likely change the way that we run an "edit mode". So, for me, we should wait to tackle edit mode until we have other pieces of the desktop in place first. Otherwise, our designs might end up changing.

In T3064#152929, @abetts wrote:

In T3064#152928, @pedrogomes1698 wrote:

Those "recent changes" that you guys are planning, are those anywhere I can see? I'm super curious about this type of stuff.

I would say, take a look at phabricator on tickets that are tagged VDG.

Great HIG!
Only one suggested rephrasing and one small typo fix (see inline comments).

So, first (and perhaps for me only one this time) guerilla test:
Participant:

• Plasma user for several years (because I recommended it to her)
• Frequent but generally mostly "non-technical" computer user
• Uses Plasma in English but isn't a native English speaker
• Has quite some experience with GIMP (also in English) and Snapseed, but not with a professional background or education

In D14025#291499, @davidedmundson wrote:

It (currently) depends. There are two scale UI options with the appropriate one visible.

The global scale factor for X is the only one that's moved.

The Unify Outputs button definitely makes sense to be there, but I'm not sure about the "Scale display" button.

I know that doing user research is not something favored here, but given how easy it is to use some user testing to settle discussions like this in a fact-based manner, I would really suggest the following:
Each of us here who knows people that use English as their UI languague (regardless of whether they are native speakers or not, doesn't matter if they use Plasma) takes a couple of them,

• shows them the screenshots with both terms (individually, in randomized order)
• asks them what they think this setting means
• records the answers
• records whether the participant should be considered a "regular" or "advanced" users

We have organized some of the above trainings for Akademy!
Please find the trainings at https://community.kde.org/Akademy/2018#Trainings and add your name to the linked page if you want to participate!

Perfect!

Perfect!

More concrete suggestion: Move the Dolphin screenshot to the top, next to the mobile screenshot.

Currently we have a screenshot of the nouseover in Dolphin in here, but screenshots for swipeListItem only in the corresponding page. That gives preference to the Dolphin pattern because lazy people will implement what they see first. Therefore there should either be screenshots for both options here, or no screenshots at all.

See inline comments. Otherwise it looks good!

This is GNOME's website privacy policy: https://wiki.gnome.org/Foundation/Privacy

The league of professional system administrators has a code of ethics: https://lopsa.org/CodeOfEthics

Some questions/feedback

• So do we have context menus in Kirigami / QQC2 right now or not?
• And what about spin boxes? Is there actually a QQC2 for those? Apart from that technical question: I would not recommend them on mobile, their buttons are too small for touch.
• Is there a traditional tooltip in QQC2?
• Last time I talked to people, there was no treeview in QQC2. Is there one now?

• Drawers are not mobile-only. Most desktop apps will probably opt for sidebars instead of drawers on desktop, but if you want to allow users to show some UI elements only on demand, a drawer can make sense even on desktop. They just work slightly differently (on desktop the drawer stays open until you close it manually), but that should be described within the page. It's still the same pattern
• As far as I know, Kirigami does not have a menubar and so far doesn't plan to have one, so that would be QWidget-only
• Plasma does have context menus
• Currently Kirigami uses toolbars only on desktop (on mobile they are floating action buttons). This might change in the future, but for the time being, toolbars are desktop-only

light weight -> lightweight
look in reStructuredText like this -> looks like this in reStructured Text

Now it has the same icon as the handle for the Context Drawer. On the one hand that's good because they do very similar things, but on the other hand if an app uses both, it could be a bit confusing

This is a clear improvement from my perspective, and I don't see it introducing any usability issues.

I think that when at the bottom, having the combobox is okay because it's not too prominent. The only problem I see is that it means that changing a combobox changes the content above it, which is not usually expected behavior for a combobox.

Dunno why I only noticed it now, but of course then this is not the right place to fix it. Sorry for the noise.

Looks great!
My only concern would be that in the mouseover state the contrast between the grip and groove is quite low. This could make the two difficult to distinguish, especially for color blind users. Could perhaps the contrast in terms of brightness be increased a bit?

This layout makes more sense to me as well overall. The only thing that I find a bit strange is that the summary now looks a bit like a headline, especially given that the application name is in the toolbar instead of the content area. I'm wondering if we should move the name and icon into the content area.

In D8536#181775, @petermajchrak wrote:

I can revert it back to the combobox based layout. Don't we have some UX people that could take a look at this?

With that many available algorithms, the combobox solution makes more sense to me as well.

@James In fact, this is exactly what we've promised people in 2014 ( https://sessellift.wordpress.com/2014/04/02/choose-your-own-experience-this-time-its-for-real/ ), and what we've been getting the technology ready for since then.
The Plasma team is against shipping the other L&Fs directly with Plasma because that would mean they'd have to maintain them in case the original author loses interest, but getting them with a one-click install via store.kde.org is the idea.

This proposal unfortunately was not selected as a goal for KDE as a whole to focus on.
That does not mean that we should not work on it, of course. As the discussion here shows, there is a relevant subset of the community who is interested in this topic, and I think we should work on it anyway, even if the whole of KDE is not focusing on it.

These are two different things, and both relevant. Yes, things should work "out of the box". Yes, things should ideally be self-explanatory.
Games (regardless of platform) and many mobile apps and OSes have shown, however, that it's often not possible for everything to be self-explanatory. Or if you make it so, you end up with a "chatty UI" that annoys users once they've figured it out.

In T6831#119228, @jensreuterberg wrote:

There is a huge amount of antipathy towards installation wizards but one idea me and @adridg have talked and worked a little on is making Calamares have a "first set up" thing during the installation phase where you usually have a random slideshow. So instead of seeing random information that few bothers with you use that time to set up things for the core user (multiple users is a bit of a PITA)

Looking great!

I can confirm that the dropdowns work on mobile now, thanks for fixing this!

In D8773#167607, @broulik wrote:

What I would like to see is that when you open the "Edit Toolbar" dialog that you then can drag around tool bar buttons and drag them from and to the dialog, like Firefox does it and how @colomar suggested. Given you can already re-arrange toolbar buttons whilst said dialog is open, what needs to be added is the ability to drag those from and to the dialog.

Why don't we do this the way Firefox does it: Have a menu entry that puts the whole UI in config mode.
That works far better then trying to make each individual config feature discoverable.

much better version control. eg at the moment it's next to impossible to create and discuss a draft

In D8641#164016, @ngraham wrote:

Do we have top have that giant banner on top of the sidebar list?

In T7116#114498, @ervin wrote:

Yes, it'd be nice to see them finally merging, we're late in the discussion phase now. Also as a bonus, it would be awesome if the consolidated proposal could contain aspects coming from the talk we held with David Faure this year about the developer story. That'd make for a very strong one then, and would probably add at least David's name in the list of people willing to put work into it. ;-)

So, what do we do with this proposal and https://phabricator.kde.org/T7116 now? They are so similar that it really makes little sense from my perspective to keep them separated.
Can @ngraham and @neofytosk maybe see how to proceed with merging them into one which contains all aspects of both?
Otherwise votes would end up split between the two, effectively reducing the chance for either of them to be selected.

@laysrodrigues Yes, that is exactly what this proposal is about :)

Inlcude reminder of duty to attend AGM or find proxy

@hook We saw you subsrcibed to this task. Would you be interested in looking into this? That would help us a lot!

I am definitely all for getting design more involved, but I feel that this proposal needs to be more detailed and concrete before I'm ready to sign it.

I'm happy that there is a lot of discussion happening here, but maybe the discussion about annotations in Okular is getting a bit too much into detail for this point in the process.
So let's maybe summarize it for now as "There are potentially some issues with compatibility of Okular annotations, so if this goal gets selected, this could be one of the things we look into, together with academic / research users.

In T6895#112935, @ngraham wrote:

If we can broaden the scope to include some of those use cases, with the knowledge that this will pay dividends for academic users in non-STEM fields, then I would be willing to climb aboard and put work into this.

This is hugely important, from an accessibility, internationalization as well as usability perspective. That's why I'd be happy to help with UX design and testing.

@meikm @asemke @sgerlach @evpokp It would be great if you could edit the task description and add your name in the "I am willing to put work into this" section, just to have the list of people.

In T6895#112887, @asemke wrote:

In T6895#112789, @ngraham wrote:

In my experience, macOS is heavily over-represented in academia here in the USA. Much less so in Europe.

In T6895#112625, @evpokp wrote:

I would be interested to see development on this and I could help with some evangelism, but right now I don't use a lot of KDE software for academic work apart from using Plasma as my DE and I don't expect this to change soon, as the relevant (cited) soft are lagging behind the competition, at least for my areas of interest.

In T6895#112766, @meikm wrote:

i'm working on proposal 1) already (team RKWard). for instance, i was given the opportunity to do a software presentation at the 50th DGPs congress in 2016. the fact that i was given a full 90 min slot in the second largest hall can be seen as an indicator that there's actually a growing interest in software alternatives. i handed out USB sticks with a KDE live system, RKWard and various R packages, not only to invite participants to try it, but also to demonstrate that you are allowed to just give the software to all students and staff. it would already make a lot of sense to have a RKWard booth at such a conference. i'd gladly do that, so i guess you can count me in on "willing to put work into this". but without funding you can only do so much.

In T6895#112701, @neofytosk wrote:

I wonder if KDE people working on projects related to R&A are aware of this proposal. It would be great to hear their opinion. Can we get them involved?

In T7126#112488, @ngraham wrote:

A venn diagram of "People who care about privacy" and "people who buy and use smart home devices" doesn't have a lot overlap, I fear.

If you buy a device that monitors everything about your behavior, house, and life, haven't you already lost the battle by deciding that you don't really care about your privacy? I don't see how we can salvage this situation for people who aren't very interested in the concept. We might want them to care about privacy, but if they did, that would have an always listening spy gizmo in their house in the first place.

In T6875#112622, @chfanzil wrote:

And I totally agree in regards of the 'Possible additional target groups', I don't know if I can still add new things like more target groups to the Goal. (lydia, Can I?)

In T6895#112448, @lydia wrote:

Right now there is unfortunately no-one added under "I am willing to put work into this". Is that reflecting reality?

In T6895#112553, @gregormi wrote:

Is this goal also include undergraduate schools or should this be a separate goal?

Colors are more @jensreuterberg 's thing.

This is a goal which (hopefully) pretty much everyone in KDE can rally behind (otherwise our Vision, Mission and Strategy would not reflect the community's).

Yes, I totally agree.

Application Dashboard in Plasma initially shows recent applications by default (which makes a ton of sense!).