Create a New Sound Theme for Plasma
Open, Needs TriagePublic

Description

Nothing I tried worked, so I got my hands dirty and made the sound theme myself using LMMS and Audacity. Months passed and multiple versions were made with feedback from KDE's VDG, but the odyssey is finally *almost* over. There are 20 sounds in total. Check the progress here: https://invent.kde.org/plasma/plasma-workspace/-/issues/40

What is this about?

The sound theme is what is heard throughout Plasma when receiving alerts, like error messages or plugging in a new device. In this task we will discuss the steps we will take to have a new sound theme ready for Plasma.

Rationale:

The Oxygen sound theme is being used since Plasma 4 days and while it’s a good sound theme, it was made to go along the Oxygen style and doesn’t really fit the Breeze theme. It's also old and having a new sound theme would be good to keep Plasma feeling fresh.

Since now there’s work being done to evolve Breeze, it’s also a good time to give some thought to the sound theme as well.

Having a new iconic sound theme is an important part of branding. It’s important that people recognize a specific Plasma version not only visually, but when they hear it as well.

It can also help differentiate between new Plasma versions. Having a new sound theme for Plasma 5, even if late, and in the future for Plasma 6 can help with the expectation that new major versions should include changes. Having the sound theme stay the same between major Plasma releases breaks that expectation.

Requirements:

Implement technical details: https://invent.kde.org/plasma/plasma-workspace/-/issues/40

Details:

The new sound theme has 20 sounds. The list below is outdated but kept as reference.

List of sounds we need:

  • Plugging device - device-added
  • Unplugging device - device-removed
  • Power plug - power-plug
  • Power unplug - power-unplug
  • Low battery warning - battery-low
  • Volume change - audio-volume-change
  • Emptying trash - Oxygen-Sys-Trash-Emptied.ogg - trash-empty
  • Error - Oxygen-Sys-App-Error.ogg - dialog-error
  • Serious error - Oxygen-Sys-App-Error-Serious
  • Critical error - Oxygen-Sys-App-Error-Critical.ogg
  • Login - Oxygen-Sys-Log-In.ogg - desktop-login
  • Log out - Oxygen-Sys-Log-Out.ogg - desktop-logout
  • Information dialog - Oxygen-Sys-App-Message.ogg - dialog-information
  • Warning dialog - Oxygen-Sys-Warning.ogg - dialog-warning
  • Generic sound for "negative" actions (like turning off your touchpad) - Oxygen-Sys-App-Negative.ogg
  • Generic sound for "positive" actions (like turning on your touchpad) - Oxygen-Sys-App-Positive.ogg
  • Update notification: Oxygen-Sys-Special.ogg
  • Pressing normal key in virtual keyboard
  • Pressing modifier key (like shift) in virtual keyboard
  • Notification for SMS

Specifications:

The final sound format must follow the Freedesktop Sound Theme Specification and the Sound Naming Specification, so:

The sounds files must be one of the types: WAV/PCM 8-48kHz, 8/16 bits or OGG/Vorbis I. The extension must be ".wav", or ".oga" respectively (in lower case). It is not recommended to use ".ogg" extension, but it is also supported for legacy reasons.

Promotion:

There's a basic video showcasing the sound theme with some desktop footage. It could be transformed into a short promotional video. Another idea would be to use some sounds in the release video for whatever Plasma version they get shipped with.

TODO

There are a very large number of changes, so older changes are hidden. Show Older Changes
Define which sounds need to be replaced

We could use this opportunity to be compliant to the sound theme spec https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/sound-theme-spec/

Define which license the sounds must have

per the licensing policy https://community.kde.org/Policies/Licensing_Policy

8. Media files such as images may be licensed under the CC-BY-SA-4.0 or compatible licence.

    Note: Image files must be committed together with their preferred modifiable form such as SVG.
    Note: CC-BY-SA 4.0 can be one-way converted to GPL 3.

per the licensing policy https://community.kde.org/Policies/Licensing_Policy

8. Media files such as images may be licensed under the CC-BY-SA-4.0 or compatible licence.

    Note: Image files must be committed together with their preferred modifiable form such as SVG.
    Note: CC-BY-SA 4.0 can be one-way converted to GPL 3.

Sorry, I see this was alread ypointed out

Is CC0 not one-way compatible with CC BY-SA-4.0? I mean. surely you can relicense a CC0 file to CC By-SA, but not the other way around.

Guilhermems added a comment.EditedFeb 27 2021, 12:39 AM
Define which sounds need to be replaced

We could use this opportunity to be compliant to the sound theme spec https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/sound-theme-spec/

This is interesting and I think being compliant with the standard is a good thing. It could also open an oportunity for having custom sound themes in the future.
The spec also answers my question about what format the sounds should have. According to http://0pointer.de/public/sound-theme-spec.html

The mandatory supported sound file formats are WAV/PCM 8-48kHz, 8/16bits, and OGG/Vorbis I. WAV at 48kHz/Stereo is the recommended uncompressed format, and OGG/Vorbis I is the recommended compressed format. The sample must be normalized, in order to be mixed down nicely with a suitable average replay level.

The sounds files must be one of the types: WAV/PCM 8-48kHz, 8/16 bits or OGG/Vorbis I. The extension must be ".wav", or ".oga" respectively (in lower case). It is not recommended to use ".ogg" extension, but it is also supported for legacy reasons.

Define which license the sounds must have

per the licensing policy https://community.kde.org/Policies/Licensing_Policy

8. Media files such as images may be licensed under the CC-BY-SA-4.0 or compatible licence.

    Note: Image files must be committed together with their preferred modifiable form such as SVG.
    Note: CC-BY-SA 4.0 can be one-way converted to GPL 3.

Since we already have a licensing policy we should definitely follow it. I believe we won't have any problems by licensing the sounds with CC BY.

Assuming this (CC-BY-SA 4.0 or CC-BY 4.0.) is chosen (and to be clear, I don't disagree) LMMS won't be bundling the source/presets/files in any future version of the software. We may offer a download under special agreement, but we won't be shipping these samples by default. Not a problem here, but wanted to be as clear as possible.

Sorry, I don't know if I follow. You're saying any samples the chosen artist uses won't be bundled with LMMS anymore? I'm confused :S

If I'm understanding this right, this isn't really a problem. We already talked about only letting artists use synthesis samples to avoid problems with some of the current samples licensing. As long as they use CC0 or systhesis intruments we shouldn't have any problems, and all those samples can still be shipped with LMMS, even if we license the final sounds with another license.

Guilhermems updated the task description. (Show Details)Mar 6 2021, 8:27 PM
filipf added a subscriber: filipf.
Guilhermems updated the task description. (Show Details)Mar 17 2021, 3:05 PM

This is an interesting link that might be useful for reference: https://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Oxygen/Sound_Theme_Technical_Specification

Guilhermems updated the task description. (Show Details)Mar 17 2021, 5:23 PM
Guilhermems updated the task description. (Show Details)
Guilhermems updated the task description. (Show Details)Mar 17 2021, 6:38 PM

I did not link directly to it before, but the standard sound names are in http://0pointer.de/public/sound-naming-spec.html

Guilhermems added a comment.EditedMar 21 2021, 7:25 PM

Topic: Define how participants can submit their entries

I talked a little about this in the Promo room and I agree participants should be free to send their material in whatever way they please, as long as it's easily accesible by us. I still think they should put their sounds in a compressed file with a .txt inside with their info, but I also don't know if putting too many requirements is a good idea. Any thoughts on this?

Edit: I've just noticed LMMS makes people send their music through an online form (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScfJNvVtoCJ8SVQ8TWiPMjbIsl49RvwGiy1nODuvKdJ8Er_Bg/viewform). I guess we could do something similar, so people can add their info on the form and include a link with the files. Opinions?

paulb added a comment.Mar 21 2021, 7:50 PM

I may have said this before, but... Would it not make sense to release a silent video showing the events we want sounds for and participants dub their sounds on top of that (and then put it up on YouTube, PeerTube, Vimeo or wherever)? This would give participants a good idea of what we want, a chance to see if their creations work or not, and make judging easier.

Topic: Define how participants can submit their entries

I talked a little about this in the Promo room and I agree participants should be free to send their material in whatever way they please, as long as it's easily accesible by us. I still think they should put their sounds in a compressed file with a .txt inside with their info, but I also don't know if putting too many requirements is a good idea. Any thoughts on this?

Edit: I've just noticed LMMS makes people send their music through an online form (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScfJNvVtoCJ8SVQ8TWiPMjbIsl49RvwGiy1nODuvKdJ8Er_Bg/viewform). I guess we could do something similar, so people can add their info on the form and include a link with the files. Opinions?

This will probably be the most familiar way for the LMMS community to submit things in competition form. There are a few things I would bring up though for the rules. Here's a reworked first 3 Best of LMMS 8 rules, my notes in bold:

  1. The Deadline:
    • Track must be submitted by MONTH DAY 2021 at 23:59.59 UTC using this form.
  2. The Track:
    • Must be produced in LMMS.
    • You may use other programs for mastering and post processing. Do we want to allow this?
    • Must be under X seconds long.
    • No covers or remixes of other person(s) works are permitted.
  3. The Submissions:
    • You must submit using this form only.
    • No more than ONE entry per artist is allowed. With multiple clips to be done, do we allow multiple entries and take the first submission per clip, or make multiple forms for each clip needed?
    • Collaborations count as ONE entry for each artist involved.
    • No collaborating with judges on entries.
    • Only submissions hosted on Soundcloud, YouTube, or Clyp are allowed. Do we allow others?
      • The full track should be available at the submission link provided
    • Your entry must be available for listening until the end of the judging process. If not, your entry will be disqualified.
    • The entry must not contain any trademarked or copyrighted material which you do not own the rights to. I believe it was discussed that only synths were going to be allowed to avoid any copyright stuff? Would be good to add an explicit rule for that.

I may have said this before, but... Would it not make sense to release a silent video showing the events we want sounds for and participants dub their sounds on top of that (and then put it up on YouTube, PeerTube, Vimeo or wherever)? This would give participants a good idea of what we want, a chance to see if their creations work or not, and make judging easier.

That would be nice, but I would hate to have people not enter because they are unable to do this part for one reason or another.

I may have said this before, but... Would it not make sense to release a silent video showing the events we want sounds for and participants dub their sounds on top of that (and then put it up on YouTube, PeerTube, Vimeo or wherever)? This would give participants a good idea of what we want, a chance to see if their creations work or not, and make judging easier.

On the surface this is a good idea, however, I don't want to make a video a requirement for participating, because that would require people to also have video editing skills (even if basic), thus adding another barrier for participating. I believe having a silent video for reference is a really good idea, but I don't think we should require participants to send their entries in video format. I think we could make an inspirational video with our reference material + a silent video for reference, and let participants send their sounds in whatever platform they want.

This will probably be the most familiar way for the LMMS community to submit things in competition form. There are a few things I would bring up though for the rules. Here's a reworked first 3 Best of LMMS 8 rules, my notes in bold:

  • You may use other programs for mastering and post processing. Do we want to allow this?

I think it wouldn't be a problem to have them use other software for the final sounds.

  • No more than ONE entry per artist is allowed. With multiple clips to be done, do we allow multiple entries and take the first submission per clip, or make multiple forms for each clip needed?

I don't think we need more than one form or entry. I believe the best way is to tell people to send their work in a zipped file or a link pointing to an online folder/website with all the files. That way everything could be easily accessed at once, including the original files.

  • Only submissions hosted on Soundcloud, YouTube, or Clyp are allowed. Do we allow others?

I think we should also allow platforms like Nextcloud, Google Cloud, Dropbox and OneDrive. I'm not sure if video/music platforms are a good idea... I mean, they could be used, but we'd need to make sure participants also had a way to upload the source files.

  • The entry must not contain any trademarked or copyrighted material which you do not own the rights to. I believe it was discussed that only synths were going to be allowed to avoid any copyright stuff? Would be good to add an explicit rule for that.

Yes, we're planning on only allowing synths since apparently not all samples on LMMS are CC0. We should certainly point that out in the rules.

That would be nice, but I would hate to have people not enter because they are unable to do this part for one reason or another.

Fair enough. A compromise: we make a video anyway, so that participants have a clear idea of each of the events we need sounds for. Those that want/know how to dub a video can do so if they wish -- the video will be readily available for download for those who want to use it. If a participant does not dub the video for any reason (we will not ask for a reason), we will do it for them, so we can make the judges decision easier. I just feel that listening to pops, whistles and squawks without the visual context will be very difficult to judge.

Guilhermems added a comment.EditedMar 21 2021, 11:35 PM

That would be nice, but I would hate to have people not enter because they are unable to do this part for one reason or another.

Fair enough. A compromise: we make a video anyway, so that participants have a clear idea of each of the events we need sounds for. Those that want/know how to dub a video can do so if they wish -- the video will be readily available for download for those who want to use it. If a participant does not dub the video for any reason (we will not ask for a reason), we will do it for them, so we can make the judges decision easier. I just feel that listening to pops, whistles and squawks without the visual context will be very difficult to judge.

Okay, so the plan is to have a form just like LMMS does, asking for their name, a link to their sounds (be it on video or a playlist on a website like SoundCloud) and also a link to the actual .wav/.oga + the LMMS source files. In this case we would strongly recommend making a video but wouldn't require it in order to participate. Right?

For people that don't send the video I can help sync the sounds to video, but depending on the number of entries we get I might not be able to do that for every single entry.

Talking about audio and video, we should also remember to specify a name convention for the sound files following the FreeDesktop Sound Theme Specification when announcing the rules. It wouldn't be fun if everyone named the files their own way and we had to guess which sound is for what. :P

Guilhermems updated the task description. (Show Details)Mar 21 2021, 11:39 PM

Okay, so the plan is to have a form just like LMMS does, asking for their name, a link to their sounds (be it on video or a playlist on a website like SoundCloud) and also a link to the actual .wav/.oga + the LMMS source files. In this case we would strongly recommend making a video but wouldn't require it in order to participate. Right?

No. We make the video, a silent screencast of the Plasma desktop showing the events that need sounds. They can make the sounds and can add themselves to the video (say, using Kdenlive), or, if they prefer, we can add the sounds they give us.

Talking about audio and video, we should also remember to specify a name convention for the sound files following the FreeDesktop Sound Theme Specification when announcing the rules. It wouldn't be fun if everyone named the files their own way and we had to guess which sound is for what. :P

Oh, yes! Otherwise, it will be very confusing.

Guilhermems added a comment.EditedMar 22 2021, 1:31 AM

Okay, so the plan is to have a form just like LMMS does, asking for their name, a link to their sounds (be it on video or a playlist on a website like SoundCloud) and also a link to the actual .wav/.oga + the LMMS source files. In this case we would strongly recommend making a video but wouldn't require it in order to participate. Right?

No. We make the video, a silent screencast of the Plasma desktop showing the events that need sounds. They can make the sounds and can add themselves to the video (say, using Kdenlive), or, if they prefer, we can add the sounds they give us.

That's what I tried to say! I guess I didn't choose my words wisely 😝.

Okay, I'll wait for more opinions until tomorrow. If no one has any objections, I will start working on the next topic.

Okay, so the plan is to have a form just like LMMS does, asking for their name, a link to their sounds (be it on video or a playlist on a website like SoundCloud) and also a link to the actual .wav/.oga + the LMMS source files. In this case we would strongly recommend making a video but wouldn't require it in order to participate. Right?

No. We make the video, a silent screencast of the Plasma desktop showing the events that need sounds. They can make the sounds and can add themselves to the video (say, using Kdenlive), or, if they prefer, we can add the sounds they give us.

Actually that's not a bad idea to suggest kdenlive. Have the video and give simple instructions on how to add the sound at timestamps, or possibly (I don't know the project save file format) have a script that can programmatically add it at the correct points and generate the video.

Okay, so the plan is to have a form just like LMMS does, asking for their name, a link to their sounds (be it on video or a playlist on a website like SoundCloud) and also a link to the actual .wav/.oga + the LMMS source files. In this case we would strongly recommend making a video but wouldn't require it in order to participate. Right?

No. We make the video, a silent screencast of the Plasma desktop showing the events that need sounds. They can make the sounds and can add themselves to the video (say, using Kdenlive), or, if they prefer, we can add the sounds they give us.

Actually that's not a bad idea to suggest kdenlive. Have the video and give simple instructions on how to add the sound at timestamps, or possibly (I don't know the project save file format) have a script that can programmatically add it at the correct points and generate the video.

I think it's absolutely fine if we suggest Kdenlive as you said, but we shouldn't add more requirements than strictly necessary, because that can absolutely scare people away. The last thing we want is a contest with only one or two entries.

Okay, so the plan is to have a form just like LMMS does, asking for their name, a link to their sounds (be it on video or a playlist on a website like SoundCloud) and also a link to the actual .wav/.oga + the LMMS source files. In this case we would strongly recommend making a video but wouldn't require it in order to participate. Right?

No. We make the video, a silent screencast of the Plasma desktop showing the events that need sounds. They can make the sounds and can add themselves to the video (say, using Kdenlive), or, if they prefer, we can add the sounds they give us.

Actually that's not a bad idea to suggest kdenlive. Have the video and give simple instructions on how to add the sound at timestamps, or possibly (I don't know the project save file format) have a script that can programmatically add it at the correct points and generate the video.

I think it's absolutely fine if we suggest Kdenlive as you said, but we shouldn't add more requirements than strictly necessary, because that can absolutely scare people away. The last thing we want is a contest with only one or two entries.

For sure. Definitely give the option for the entrants to do it, but make a strong point it is not required to be done nor would having one give any benefit to the entry. It's only there to save judge time and for the entrant to have a visual aid of the actions the sound clips are going to be tied to.

paulb added a comment.Mar 22 2021, 8:43 AM

Okay, so the plan is to have a form just like LMMS does, asking for their name, a link to their sounds (be it on video or a playlist on a website like SoundCloud) and also a link to the actual .wav/.oga + the LMMS source files. In this case we would strongly recommend making a video but wouldn't require it in order to participate. Right?

No. We make the video, a silent screencast of the Plasma desktop showing the events that need sounds. They make the sounds and add them themselves to the video (say, using Kdenlive), or, if they prefer, we can add the sounds they give us.

Talking about audio and video, we should also remember to specify a name convention for the sound files following the FreeDesktop Sound Theme Specification when announcing the rules. It wouldn't be fun if everyone named the files their own way and we had to guess which sound is for what. :P

Oh, yes! Otherwise, it will be very confusing.

paulb added a comment.Mar 22 2021, 9:27 AM

@Guilhermems:

I think it's absolutely fine if we suggest Kdenlive as you said, but we shouldn't add more requirements than strictly necessary, because that can absolutely scare people away. The last thing we want is a contest with only one or two entries.

Oh, yes! Totally agree. It is a competition about sounds after all, not video. Beyond providing the audio, let participants do (or not do) what they want.

@veratil :

(I don't know the project save file format) have a script that can programmatically add it at the correct points and generate the video.

It's XML. We can ask Kdenlive devs for help if we need it. They'll give us a hand for sure.

Guilhermems updated the task description. (Show Details)Mar 22 2021, 10:42 PM

Topic: Define if there will be any kind of incentive for winners

In your experience with LMMS and contests, do you think social media exposure is enough to attract participants @veratil?

Topic: Define if there will be any kind of incentive for winners

In your experience with LMMS and contests, do you think social media exposure is enough to attract participants @veratil?

Truthfully, I have no experience with the Best of LMMS contests. I'm just a friendly dev trying to help out and get this going! :)

I know any artist would appreciate exposure, but there definitely has to be something more than that if you want to attract more. Maybe KDE could offer a selection of custom KDE merch specifically for the winners? T-shirt, cap, etc. A t-shirt is a good example of something that can give more exposure to all parties involved that the winner can constantly use in their own life. It could have the KDE+Plasma logo along with the LMMS logo and a phrase with something silly like, "I'm the sound you hear!"

Topic: Define if there will be any kind of incentive for winners

In your experience with LMMS and contests, do you think social media exposure is enough to attract participants @veratil?

Truthfully, I have no experience with the Best of LMMS contests. I'm just a friendly dev trying to help out and get this going! :)

I know any artist would appreciate exposure, but there definitely has to be something more than that if you want to attract more. Maybe KDE could offer a selection of custom KDE merch specifically for the winners? T-shirt, cap, etc. A t-shirt is a good example of something that can give more exposure to all parties involved that the winner can constantly use in their own life. It could have the KDE+Plasma logo along with the LMMS logo and a phrase with something silly like, "I'm the sound you hear!"

Hey @paulb @ognarb do you think something like this would be feasible?

paulb added a comment.Mar 23 2021, 7:26 PM

Hey @paulb @ognarb do you think something like this would be feasible?

I think it is a reasonable price to pay. I'm pretty sure we can make it happen. Let me look into what we've got and check with the Board.

I agree with Paul, sending some merch to the winner (and maybe to some other very good entries) should be feasible :)

paulb added a comment.Mar 23 2021, 8:39 PM

Be aware we have had problems sending things to certain countries in the past. Overzealous custom officials and unreliable postage services in the winners' countries have sometimes been a source of frustration for everybody. If we do go down this route of sending a physical prize, we will have to include a disclaimer that states that, although we will do everything in our power to ensure the winner receives the prize, we cannot be made responsible for problems that may happen in transit.

veratil added a comment.EditedMar 23 2021, 9:19 PM

Be aware we have had problems sending things to certain countries in the past. Overzealous custom officials and unreliable postage services in the winners' countries have sometimes been a source of frustration for everybody. If we do go down this route of sending a physical prize, we will have to include a disclaimer that states that, although we will do everything in our power to ensure the winner receives the prize, we cannot be made responsible for problems that may happen in transit.

100% agree. Disclaimers are always needed for physical prizes.

Also, we will need to decide a maximum amount of physical prizes won if we select a single entrant as a winner for multiple clips. If entrant A wins 5 clips, do they get 5 items or 1?

EDIT: Expanding on the idea. How much does a single t-shirt cost? If we give each clip a prize value in terms of a single t-shirt, we could allow an entrant that wins multiple a more valuable prize selection, within reason of course.

Be aware we have had problems sending things to certain countries in the past. Overzealous custom officials and unreliable postage services in the winners' countries have sometimes been a source of frustration for everybody. If we do go down this route of sending a physical prize, we will have to include a disclaimer that states that, although we will do everything in our power to ensure the winner receives the prize, we cannot be made responsible for problems that may happen in transit.

100% agree. Disclaimers are always needed for physical prizes.

Also, we will need to decide a maximum amount of physical prizes won if we select a single entrant as a winner for multiple clips. If entrant A wins 5 clips, do they get 5 items or 1?

EDIT: Expanding on the idea. How much does a single t-shirt cost? If we give each clip a prize value in terms of a single t-shirt, we could allow an entrant that wins multiple a more valuable prize selection, within reason of course.

Hmm... We're probably only going to choose a single artist for all sounds, at least for the sound theme contest.

Since it's a sound theme it has to be consistent, and mixing sounds from different artists wouldn't work well. In that case, that single person should win all prizes.

However, we were also talking about getting some ringtones/alarm sounds for Plasma Mobile, and for that we can possibly choose multiple artists. In that case, what we could do is limiting it to 1 song per artist. You can check the subtask here: https://phabricator.kde.org/T14204

Hmm... We're probably only going to choose a single artist for all sounds, at least for the sound theme contest.

Since it's a sound theme it has to be consistent, and mixing sounds from different artists wouldn't work well. In that case, that single person should win all prizes.

I was under the impression that it could be mix and match for the winners. Mixing sounds from different entrants could possibly not work well. Since we will have an overall theme then it's entirely possible there are better fits for certain sounds from multiple entrants. The issue I see with having a single winner is that there could be clips from other entrants that fit the feel better than the winning entry.

As a whole theme entry, in the event an entrant misses a clip does that disqualify them? Are we going to reach out if they are missing some and see if they have them? In the case the winning entry doesn't have a clip for one reason or another, allowing multiple winners should definitely be a possibility.

However, we were also talking about getting some ringtones/alarm sounds for Plasma Mobile, and for that we can possibly choose multiple artists. In that case, what we could do is limiting it to 1 song per artist. You can check the subtask here: https://phabricator.kde.org/T14204

This is more in line with normal Best of LMMS contests from the rules. An artist could have a winning submission to both this and the theme contest.

Exclusively addressing the issue of prizes, the more prizewinners we have the less likely we will be able to cater satisfactorily to them all. I suggest that, if mixing and matching does occur to complete the winning sound theme, the person who contributes most to the theme gets the prize. Otherwise, it is way too complicated for us.

We can leave up to the judges the decision of how to measure that.

Does that sound fair? It is consistent with other competitions we have held (for example, wallpapers) in which non-winning designs have been included with the desktop or used at a later date. Often, the artist is very happy to have their design on the desktops of millions of machines and being widely credited by us through every media we reach. Our hope is that helping out a fellow FLOSS project and the recognition this will afford for excellent sound design will also serve as a motivation to participate.

Exclusively addressing the issue of prizes, the more prizewinners we have the less likely we will be able to cater satisfactorily to them all. I suggest that, if mixing and matching does occur to complete the winning sound theme, the person who contributes most to the theme gets the prize. Otherwise, it is way too complicated for us.

We can leave up to the judges the decision of how to measure that.

Does that sound fair? It is consistent with other competitions we have held (for example, wallpapers) in which non-winning designs have been included with the desktop or used at a later date. Often, the artist is very happy to have their design on the desktops of millions of machines and being widely credited by us through every media we reach. Our hope is that helping out a fellow FLOSS project and the recognition this will afford for excellent sound design will also serve as a motivation to participate.

That sounds more than fair, and falls in line with your previous competitions so would be more understanding of people coming from the KDE side who haven't used LMMS before.

Guilhermems added a comment.EditedMar 24 2021, 1:33 AM

I was under the impression that it could be mix and match for the winners. Mixing sounds from different entrants could possibly not work well. Since we will have an overall theme then it's entirely possible there are better fits for certain sounds from multiple entrants. The issue I see with having a single winner is that there could be clips from other entrants that fit the feel better than the winning entry.

I mean, I'm not completely against the idea, but that could only happen if the themes feel close enough to each other and fit well together, or if it's a sound that doesn't need to sound like the others (like emptying the trash). Reiterating, I think mixing themes could happen, but it wouldn't sound good if we had like half of the clips with one instrument/effects/feel and the other half with another, so that's something we need to keep in mind. If you pay attention, most sounds of a particular theme keep some consistency, like in the choice of instruments, mood/feel or the effects used. That's the case with the current sound theme in Plasma and it's also the case with sounds in other DEs/operating systems.

Now, about having an overall theme, we've talked a little about it and we have come to the conclusion we shouldn't set a specific theme explicitly. What we're planning to do is to have some reference material to help inspire participants with a "feel" + a silent video with desktop events so they can have some context of where the sounds will be used, but we want to leave the stylistic choices to artists. That means we can't be sure if two different sets of sounds will fit well together.

It's not impossible for us to mix sounds, but I wouldn't count on it.

As a whole theme entry, in the event an entrant misses a clip does that disqualify them? Are we going to reach out if they are missing some and see if they have them? In the case the winning entry doesn't have a clip for one reason or another, allowing multiple winners should definitely be a possibility.

In that case I believe we should first check if we can get in touch with them, and if they don't get back to us we can then either find a similar sound from another artist or, as a last resort, try to make the missing sound based on the LMMS files the artist sent us (if that ever happens, I hope we can find someone talented willing to do the job :P).

Guilhermems updated the task description. (Show Details)Mar 24 2021, 1:54 AM
Guilhermems updated the task description. (Show Details)Mar 24 2021, 4:47 AM
Guilhermems updated the task description. (Show Details)Mar 24 2021, 4:07 PM
iothes added a subscriber: iothes.Mar 24 2021, 10:18 PM

Topic: Define how participants can submit their entries

I talked a little about this in the Promo room and I agree participants should be free to send their material in whatever way they please, as long as it's easily accesible by us. I still think they should put their sounds in a compressed file with a .txt inside with their info, but I also don't know if putting too many requirements is a good idea. Any thoughts on this?

Edit: I've just noticed LMMS makes people send their music through an online form (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScfJNvVtoCJ8SVQ8TWiPMjbIsl49RvwGiy1nODuvKdJ8Er_Bg/viewform). I guess we could do something similar, so people can add their info on the form and include a link with the files. Opinions?

This will probably be the most familiar way for the LMMS community to submit things in competition form. There are a few things I would bring up though for the rules. Here's a reworked first 3 Best of LMMS 8 rules, my notes in bold:

  1. The Deadline:
    • Track must be submitted by MONTH DAY 2021 at 23:59.59 UTC using this form.
  2. The Track:
    • Must be produced in LMMS.
    • You may use other programs for mastering and post processing. Do we want to allow this?
    • Must be under X seconds long.
    • No covers or remixes of other person(s) works are permitted.
  3. The Submissions:
    • You must submit using this form only.
    • No more than ONE entry per artist is allowed. With multiple clips to be done, do we allow multiple entries and take the first submission per clip, or make multiple forms for each clip needed?
    • Collaborations count as ONE entry for each artist involved.
    • No collaborating with judges on entries.
    • Only submissions hosted on Soundcloud, YouTube, or Clyp are allowed. Do we allow others?
      • The full track should be available at the submission link provided
    • Your entry must be available for listening until the end of the judging process. If not, your entry will be disqualified.
    • The entry must not contain any trademarked or copyrighted material which you do not own the rights to. I believe it was discussed that only synths were going to be allowed to avoid any copyright stuff? Would be good to add an explicit rule for that.

I may have said this before, but... Would it not make sense to release a silent video showing the events we want sounds for and participants dub their sounds on top of that (and then put it up on YouTube, PeerTube, Vimeo or wherever)? This would give participants a good idea of what we want, a chance to see if their creations work or not, and make judging easier.

That would be nice, but I would hate to have people not enter because they are unable to do this part for one reason or another.

About duration of the sounds. I'd like to add my own opinion if you'd like to hear:
I believe that short sounds (talking about 3seconds max with echos) sound aesthetically more pleasing than longer sounds ( the old booting sound is a great example ). One way of me viewing it would be that longer sounds are a bit outdated, in a sense that they make Plasma look like it focuses too much on the sounds rather their function: being distinctive and notify quickly. Maybe the way I put it is a bit disatisfying, after all it's a realy introverted opinion. But let's just say that shorter sounds give the impression of a more "modern" and "faster" DE. Now....

You seriously don't have to follow my opinion because it's all a matter of aesthetic. Perhaps there could be a submission of sounds as long as the old ones and actually be nicely captivating... I'm not sure what I'm saying at this point, but the real point is: short but also creative sounds. There are so many things to do in just 2 seconds.

Guilhermems updated the task description. (Show Details)Mar 27 2021, 6:16 PM

re: topic changes for oxygen -> sound spec mapping

I've read through the spec and here's my input on some mappings. I don't see any problem with using more specific naming in some instances, as the spec allows the fall back to the previous level of specificity if not found.

Oxygen-Sys-List-End.ogg - completion-rotation

search-results-rotation, the completion-* specifies text completion, and I'm not sure what List could mean for this sound

Oxygen-Sys-List-Match-No.ogg - completion-fail

search-results-fail

Oxygen-Sys-List-Match-Multiple.ogg - completion-partial

search-results (one or more results returned)

Oxygen-Sys-Log-In.ogg (I think we can make the normal and short versions of the login sound the same sound)

We could have both desktop-login and desktop-login-short since -short is a more specific sound

Oxygen-Sys-App-Negative.ogg (this sound is used in many places in Plasma, to indicate something is OFF, so there's no exact match in the spec)

I believe this falls under branding, so it would be something like x-plasma-app-off

Oxygen-Sys-App-Positive.ogg (this sound is used in many places in Plasma to indicate something is ON, so there's no exact match in the spec)

Same as above, x-plasma-app-on

Oxygen-Sys-App-Error-Serious.ogg - (can't find in the spec a sound for a serious error)

dialog-error is the closest, imo

Oxygen-Sys-App-Error-Critical.ogg (there's no exact match to this sound. In Plasma, it's used in two places, 1. to indicate a critical message and 2. to indicate the battery is dying. The closest match in the spec is battery-low)

We could use dialog-critical ?

Oxygen-Sys-Special.ogg - (can't find in the spec a sound for a special warning)

x-plasma-special

Oxygen-Im-Nudge.ogg (It's used in Plasma Mobile but I don't know what for)

message-new-instant ?

Oxygen-Sys-Error-Printing.ogg - (can't find in the spec a sound for a printing error)

Looking at table 4, there are names for camera-*, so I think it follows we can use printer-* (possibly email to get it added to the spec)


GNOME is listed as using the spec, I think it would be wise to see where/if they're using sounds for some of the above items we don't have matches for. Additionally (and off topic) I think it would be awesome for a future endeavor of GNOME and KDE working together to try and fill out the spec for standard names!

Hi @veratil actually I think we don't have to worry about the sound mappings. I talked to one of the developers and they said that can be organized after the contest is completed. All I need to do is figure out what we need and I think I have a pretty good idea now. I've updated the task description.

Guilhermems updated the task description. (Show Details)Mar 27 2021, 9:54 PM

Hi @veratil actually I think we don't have to worry about the sound mappings. I talked to one of the developers and they said that can be organized after the contest is completed. All I need to do is figure out what we need and I think I have a pretty good idea now. I've updated the task description.

Sounds good. I'd say just give them a name similar to the naming spec and call it a day. lol

Let's get a move on for this project. We have discussed enough. It is now action time! Let's start by writing a wiki entry with all the information for participants.

I have created a draft for you here, much of which is copied from our last video competition, so it needs adapting.

@Guilhermems, please check to see if you can edit that page. If you have any problem, ping me on the chat channels and I'll see what's up.

Let's aim to start announcing in the week after Easter.

Let's get a move on for this project. We have discussed enough. It is now action time! Let's start by writing a wiki entry with all the information for participants.

I have created a draft for you here, much of which is copied from our last video competition, so it needs adapting.

@Guilhermems, please check to see if you can edit that page. If you have any problem, ping me on the chat channels and I'll see what's up.

Let's aim to start announcing in the week after Easter.

Alright. I made some changes to your draft (they're not final yet). I urge everyone to take a look and check if everything is okay or if anything should be changed/improved.

https://community.kde.org/Promo/Plasma_5.22_Audio_Competition

paulb added a comment.Mar 31 2021, 5:38 PM

@Guilhermems : Does this list...

Suggested new sounds (with name from spec):

  - Plugging device - device-added
  - Unplugging device - device-removed
  - Power plug - power-plug
  - Power unplug - power-unplug
  - Low battery warning - battery-low
  - Feedback sound when changing volume - audio-volume-change
  
  Keep:
  
  - Oxygen-Sys-Trash-Emptied.ogg - trash-empty
  - Oxygen-Sys-List-End.ogg - completion-rotation
  - Oxygen-Sys-List-Match-No.ogg - completion-fail
  - Oxygen-Sys-List-Match-Multiple.ogg - completion-partial
  - Oxygen-Sys-App-Error.ogg - dialog-error
  - Oxygen-Sys-Log-In.ogg - desktop-login
  - Oxygen-Sys-Log-Out.ogg - desktop-logout
  - Oxygen-Sys-App-Message.ogg - dialog-information
  - Oxygen-Sys-Warning.ogg - dialog-warning
  - Oxygen-Sys-Question.ogg - dialog-question
  - Oxygen-Im-Phone-Ring.ogg - phone-incoming-call
  - Oxygen-Sys-App-Negative.ogg
  - Oxygen-Sys-App-Positive.ogg
  - Oxygen-Sys-Special.ogg
  - Oxygen-Im-Nudge.ogg

... contain all the sounds we need? If so, I can probably get someone to start making the screencast clips we will use for the sample video.

@Guilhermems : Does this list...

Suggested new sounds (with name from spec):

  - Plugging device - device-added
  - Unplugging device - device-removed
  - Power plug - power-plug
  - Power unplug - power-unplug
  - Low battery warning - battery-low
  - Feedback sound when changing volume - audio-volume-change
  
  Keep:
  
  - Oxygen-Sys-Trash-Emptied.ogg - trash-empty
  - Oxygen-Sys-List-End.ogg - completion-rotation
  - Oxygen-Sys-List-Match-No.ogg - completion-fail
  - Oxygen-Sys-List-Match-Multiple.ogg - completion-partial
  - Oxygen-Sys-App-Error.ogg - dialog-error
  - Oxygen-Sys-Log-In.ogg - desktop-login
  - Oxygen-Sys-Log-Out.ogg - desktop-logout
  - Oxygen-Sys-App-Message.ogg - dialog-information
  - Oxygen-Sys-Warning.ogg - dialog-warning
  - Oxygen-Sys-Question.ogg - dialog-question
  - Oxygen-Im-Phone-Ring.ogg - phone-incoming-call
  - Oxygen-Sys-App-Negative.ogg
  - Oxygen-Sys-App-Positive.ogg
  - Oxygen-Sys-Special.ogg
  - Oxygen-Im-Nudge.ogg

... contain all the sounds we need? If so, I can probably get someone to start making the screencast clips we will use for the sample video.

I'm still not 100% sure. I asked in the VDG chat twice and got some of the suggestions there (the audio-volume-change is my own suggestion). I also asked about having a single login sound instead of two and they agreed we don't need a long and short version. To be honest, the only thing I'm still not sure about is having specific sounds for serious and critical errors. I asked about it there but in the end I didn't get an answer. I should probably ask again.


Another thing: @ndavis showed interest in being one of the judges.

@Guilhermems : Does this list...

-snip-

... contain all the sounds we need? If so, I can probably get someone to start making the screencast clips we will use for the sample video.

I believe it would be nice to add a few more.

Battery sounds:
battery-full
battery-caution (warning level, optional imo)

For the window manager if KDE uses the extended hint _NET_WM_STATE_DEMANDS_ATTENTION (flashes in the taskbar or whatnot):
window-attention-active
window-attention-inactive
Alternatively these could fall back on the Oxygen-Sys-App-Positive sound though.

If we have the phone-incoming-call we should probably also have the phone-outgoing-calling as well.

paulb added a comment.Mar 31 2021, 5:59 PM

Okay. Let's start with the obvious on that list (empty trash, connect/disconnect device, etc.) and then add more as necessary.

iothes added a comment.Apr 1 2021, 5:36 AM

Do they really have to be made within LMMS and nothing else? There are few other open-source projects like Ardour and Zrythm (but the latter is still in development).

paulb added a comment.Apr 1 2021, 12:02 PM
Do they really have to be made within LMMS and nothing else? There are few other open-source projects like Ardour and Zrythm (but the latter is still in development).

This competition is being organised in collaboration with the LMMS Community. So, yes, this time around at least, it has to be LMMS.

Guilhermems added a comment.EditedApr 1 2021, 7:19 PM

Okay. Let's start with the obvious on that list (empty trash, connect/disconnect device, etc.) and then add more as necessary.

Alright. Now I have all the answers I needed. We'll keep the serious and critical error sounds.

Guilhermems updated the task description. (Show Details)Apr 1 2021, 7:22 PM
Guilhermems updated the task description. (Show Details)Apr 1 2021, 7:24 PM
Guilhermems updated the task description. (Show Details)Apr 1 2021, 7:35 PM
Guilhermems added a comment.EditedApr 1 2021, 7:37 PM

I've decided to remove the phone-outgoing-call from the list because that one in most cases is simply that beep you hear in any phone when you make a call. The Freedesktop default sounds already provides that and also a beep for a busy call. It makes no sense to duplicate those if we can use the default ones. I'll still keep the phone-incoming-call one because that one can be a useful generic sound for programs (even if we have new ringtones for Plasma Mobile).

PS: I'm checking with all the KDE IM apps if they use any of the Oxygen-IM sounds. When I get an answer I'll update the description again. Hopefully it's the last time I'll have to update the sounds list.

It would be nice to have two virtual keyboard sounds, one for the regular keys, and one for special keys (shift, enter, switch layout, etc.)

Attached are examples from Windows Phone (I had to lengthen them in audacity since they were so short that the web audio player didn't even play a sound):

Guilhermems updated the task description. (Show Details)Apr 2 2021, 10:52 PM

It would be nice to have two virtual keyboard sounds, one for the regular keys, and one for special keys (shift, enter, switch layout, etc.)

Attached are examples from Windows Phone (I had to lengthen them in audacity since they were so short that the web audio player didn't even play a sound):

Added to the list. :)

Guilhermems updated the task description. (Show Details)Apr 8 2021, 8:52 PM
Guilhermems updated the task description. (Show Details)Apr 12 2021, 5:49 PM

Hi @veratil and @tresf , we want to know if you and other people at LMMS are okay with everything, that way we can start coordination of the announcement on social media. You can answer here or e-mail me at guimarcalsilva@gmail.com.

Another thing: @ndavis showed interest in being one of the judges.

Yes, I did. I have experience with sound design. Let me know if you need me to do anything.

Guilhermems renamed this task from Create a New Sound Theme for Plasma 5.22 to Create a New Sound Theme for Plasma 5.23.Apr 12 2021, 8:49 PM
Guilhermems updated the task description. (Show Details)

We're delaying it until Plasma 5.23, that way we have enough time to get everything ready and don't rush anything. For now we will start working on the Plasma Mobile sounds (https://phabricator.kde.org/T14204), those should be easier to get since there's less of them and there's also no deadline.

Hi! I want to give an update on this task. We finished the contest for Plasma Mobile a while back and I decided to give this task a break for some time. Now I think it's time to start talking about this again. I'll explain below why I didn't yet try to organize a new contest for Plasma:

  1. During the PM contest we ran into a problem with some of the included samples in LMMS. Some of them weren't CC0 licensed and I had to check each individual submission and ask people to replace them. LMMS is currently in the process of including new samples and I don't know how long it will take.
  1. With the contest, we got some pretty good ringtones and alarms, however, the judges weren't pleased with the notification and keyboard sounds, and the reason for that is because most people we can possibly get as volunteers don't have experience with sound design. While a contest is good when you let people work in their own terms and have fun while participating, as soon as we start demanding people to do things a certain way it stops being a fun activity and it starts to become work.

These are the reasons I didn't continue with this task, but I think we can do something else:

Some context:

A couple months ago I talked in the VDG room and the designers agreed it would be good to have a new sound theme for Plasma, but only with some conditions:

  1. It has to be better than the current one (this is subjective, of course).
  2. It shouldn't scare/startle the user (eg. crash sound in KDE 3).
  3. It should alert the user while also not getting in the way. That means the sounds should be "soft" and pleasant.

With that in mind, another contest is probably not the best way to get new sounds for Plasma, but there's an alternative: hire a professional sound designer to make new sounds. That way Plasma designers can give input and control exactly how they want things to sound and feel.

There's some things to keep in mind if we opt for this option:

  1. We need to check if KDE e.V has spare money that can be spent on this and calculate how much can be spent.
  2. If we get a professional to do the work they most likely won't use FLOSS tools (unless we can get someone from the community). It's not realistic to force them to use tools they're not confortable with.
  3. One possibility is to talk to LMMS (like we did for Plasma Mobile), other FLOSS DAW projects or even search within the KDE community and check if we can find a freelancer sound designer within those communities. That would be the best option in my opinion.

I'm really not sure if there's any other possibility besides hiring someone to do the work. If someone has another idea please feel free to say it.

Guilhermems renamed this task from Create a New Sound Theme for Plasma 5.23 to Create a New Sound Theme for Plasma.Oct 18 2021, 2:55 AM
Guilhermems updated the task description. (Show Details)
tresf added a comment.Oct 18 2021, 5:11 AM

One sound designer (longtime user of LMMS, uses a FOSS plugin -- Zyn Fusion/ZynAddSubFX -- to make sounds) is Unfa (Tobiasz Karoń) . Might be a good match: https://youtu.be/cAo5dX0K2mk. I've personally hired Unfa for stuff in the past. If it's not a fit, he may be able to recommend someone in the community that still uses FOSS for these things.

paulb added a comment.Oct 18 2021, 6:00 AM

The same way there are communities for graphical artists that use Free Software, there may be communities for sound designers that us FLOSS and we just haven't found them. Last time we thought "LMMS" and stopped there. I suggest we see what else we can find and then evaluate all the possibilities. Do we know where the SuperCollider community hang out, for example?

I think Unfa community can be considered as an option. He is a Plasma fan and with his youtube channel he can make it more public. LMMS is problematic because it is full of full time students (like me :) ) or most of users stick to Windows and don't exacly feel the FOSS projects.

Guilhermems updated the task description. (Show Details)Oct 23 2021, 7:19 PM

Hi everyone.

After exchanging some emails with the board they suggested we could try making this task a SoK (Season of KDE) project before thinking about hiring someone. I have a draft of the project but I also need someone with some knowledge of music to be a mentor with me. My plan is to also help with mentoring but mostly to guide and steer the student in the right direction based on what we discussed here, while the other mentor helps the student with the technical/creative process. With SoK we can actually give input to whoever is making the sounds and make the end product fit Plasma better, so if anyone is interested in helping just answer this comment and we can start discussing.

I have this draft for the SoK Ideas page:

Project type: Sound Design

Brief explanation: The goal of this task is to create a new sound theme that will be used on KDE Plasma for many purposes. For more information, please check this task: https://phabricator.kde.org/T14125

Expected results: At the end we expect Plasma to have a sound theme for many desktop actions, including but not limited to notifications, startup/shutdown jingle, alerts, and so on. We need 20 sounds in total, and most of them, with the exclusion of startup/shutdown jingles, should be about 1 second long.

Knowledge Prerequisite: Knowledge in sound design and/or music production. You'll also need to know how to use any FLOSS (Free/Libre and Open Source Software) music production software of your liking.

Mentor: Guilherme Marçal Silva (guimarcalsilva@gmail.com) and ???

Guilhermems updated the task description. (Show Details)Nov 13 2021, 11:48 PM
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aronkvh updated the task description. (Show Details)Nov 15 2021, 9:43 AM
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arpitj added a subscriber: arpitj.Dec 15 2022, 7:19 PM

Hi @Guilhermems! I just saw this listed as an idea for SoK. I'm a musician and developer, and I'm interested in helping out with this task! I have experience with sound design and music production. Following the conversation above, I figure out I need to set up LMMS (I have worked with Audacity before) as mentioned in the README for the blue-ocean-sound-theme.
Can you tell me how I should proceed?

Guilhermems added a comment.EditedDec 15 2022, 7:51 PM

Hi @Guilhermems! I just saw this listed as an idea for SoK. I'm a musician and developer, and I'm interested in helping out with this task! I have experience with sound design and music production. Following the conversation above, I figure out I need to set up LMMS (I have worked with Audacity before) as mentioned in the README for the blue-ocean-sound-theme.
Can you tell me how I should proceed?

Hi @arpitj , thank you for taking an interest in this project.

I listed that idea for last year's SoK (2022 edition, we're now at SoK 2023), but for SoK 2023 I don't have the time anymore to be a Mentor, so this project cannot be part of Season of KDE unless someone else takes that role.

Since I didn't get any response for this project in last's year SoK, I ended up making the sounds myself. Since I'm not a sound designer, your contribution would really be appreciated, however, that wouldn't be part of Season of KDE at all, and instead would be just a normal contribution. If you're still interested in contributing, discussions about the new sounds can be had here.

If you're specifically looking for a Season of KDE project, you need to read this year's SoK ideas page and select another idea.

Thanks for the update!

The sound you made are really cool! I'll look into these as a normal contribution some time!

However for now, I happen to be specifically looking for an SoK project. The "ideas" link on https://season.kde.org/ seems to be directing to 2022's ideas. Where should I report this?

Thanks for the update!

The sound you made are really cool! I'll look into these as a normal contribution some time!

However for now, I happen to be specifically looking for an SoK project. The "ideas" link on https://season.kde.org/ seems to be directing to 2022's ideas. Where should I report this?

You can talk to the people responsible for SoK in KDE's Matrix instance at #kde-soc:kde.org (you might need to make an account). In that room, you can also ask any questions you might have and interact with other participants. Here's a direct link: https://webchat.kde.org/#/room/#kde-soc:kde.org

Have a nice day!